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Syringomyelia symposium

Cardinia

Cardinia

Member
The Griffon Bruxellois Club are holding a symposium on syringomyelia on
Sunday 2nd May
at the Steventon village Hall,Steventon, Didcot, NR Oxford. O13 6RW
10.00am for a 10.30 start.

SPEAKERS

Dr Clare Rusbridge

and

Dr Jeff Sampson

Tickets are £18 including lunch. For more info contact the secretary

Mrs Maria Oliver: 020 8660 0969 or email: [email protected]
 
This could be a great opportunity for Dr. Sampson to listen to what the Dr. Rusbridge has to say, and perhaps he will learn something about the extent of CM and SM in CKCSs.
 
RodRussell said:
This could be a great opportunity for Dr. Sampson to listen to what the Dr. Rusbridge has to say, and perhaps he will learn something about the extent of CM and SM in CKCSs.
Click to expand...

Dr Sampson is employed by the Kennel Club, and like so many in that organisation his views seem to vary depending on who is in the audience.

Anyone that is still quoting the discredited 2004 KC health survey SM figures at Crufts 2010 has to be more Spin than Doctor.
 
Margaret C said:
Dr Sampson is employed by the Kennel Club, and like so many in that organisation his views seem to vary depending on who is in the audience.

Anyone that is still quoting the discredited 2004 KC health survey SM figures at Crufts 2010 has to be more Spin than Doctor.
Click to expand...

So, is he really a veterinarian, or does he just play one at Crufts? I know of vets who are employed by kennel clubs, but who also have scruples.
 
RodRussell said:
So, is he really a veterinarian, or does he just play one at Crufts? I know of vets who are employed by kennel clubs, but who also have scruples.
Click to expand...


Syringomyelia Symposium.


I know this Thread is about the Forth- Coming SM Symposium, will it make any difference to the Number of Cavalier Breeders who are just in denial about the SM Problem in Cavaliers.

Look at what happened in 1983 when the Cavalier Breeders were warned by Dr.P.Darke,the CKCS CLUB Cardiologist, about the Seriousness and how Wide-Spread the MVD Problem was then.

That was 27 years ago.!!!

Is it not just the same to-day ,the Researchers are warning about the Cavaliers' SM Problem?

The same answer seems to be, as has been given in the Past years about MVD, by some Vociferous Cavalier Breeders .

GIVE US THE PROOF.

They will use every excuse they can not to own up to the Fact that the Cavaliers have those Two Serious Health Problems.

Is it because those Cavalier Breeders are now running Scared that their Income will be being curtailed if the true facts are told to the Public about SM and MVD in Cavaliers?

Bet
 
Information

I think any means of spreading the correct information is important. People will always hear and interpret aspects differently even when attending the same meetings.

What is important is that up to date information is available for people to access if they choose and are able to do so.

I will be attending the symposium, so can feed back information but this again would be my interprataion of the information from the symposium. If there are facts from Clare Rusbridge or Jeff Sampson, I will try and feed back as accurately as possible.
 
Cardinia said:
I think any means of spreading the correct information is important. People will always hear and interpret aspects differently even when attending the same meetings.

What is important is that up to date information is available for people to access if they choose and are able to do so.

I will be attending the symposium, so can feed back information but this again would be my interprataion of the information from the symposium. If there are facts from Clare Rusbridge or Jeff Sampson, I will try and feed back as accurately as possible.
Click to expand...



Cardinia,

Just was making the point that 27 years ago UK CKCS Breeders were given the information about MVD in our Cavalier Breed, what has happened since then.

The were given Breeding Guidelines from the CKCS CLUB and the MVD Researchers.

To be Cynical ,not very much, was it the Money for some Cavalier Breeders that they did not want to lose in the past 27 years ,by keeping quiet about the MVD Problem, and now the Cavalier SM Problem could be maybe causing them the same worries.

Is the bottom line for some Cavalier Breeders down to the money that can be made from Breeding Cavaliers ,and I am not talking about Puppy Farmers and BYB's.

Bet
 
Bet,

Until there is legislation in place then some people will not follow any guidelines or protocals. Unfortunetly that is the way it is.

I believe I can help through focusing on supporting those that want to make changes, supporting those that need support and help with theirs dogs health needs and making information available to as many people as possible .
 
Syringomyelia symposium

Cardinia said:
Bet,

Until there is legislation in place then some people will not follow any guidelines or protocals. Unfortunetly that is the way it is.

I believe I can help through focusing on supporting those that want to make changes, supporting those that need support and help with theirs dogs health needs and making information available to as many people as possible .
Click to expand...


Cardinia,

I for sure hope you did'nt think I was having a go at you.

After 20 years plus trying to get results for the MVD Problem in our Beloved Cavalier Breed , you start to think what's the use .

I know that there are a number of Cavalier Breeders doing their Best, but it's when I read some of the Posts on the other Cavalier Forum ,especially against Margaret , who is doing all she can about the Cavaliers' Health Problems, it makes you realize that some Cavalier Breeders just do not live on the same Planet as I do.

Bet
 
I for sure hope you did'nt think I was having a go at you
Click to expand...
Bet

It didnt even cross my mind. I just wanted to explain my approach to life really. It is a battle with some people. In my experience with out legislaion you are not going to facilitate change to practice unless people are already looking or seeking change or even just beginning to think about the way they do things. I think that this is true about many situations in life.

Now it is about informed decision making. I would rather focus my positve energies on empowerment to support those to make changes to the way they do things.
 
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Cardinia said:
Bet

It didnt even cross my mind. I just wanted to explain my approach to life really. It is a battle with some people. In my experience with out legislaion you are not going to facilitate change to practice unless people are already looking or seeking change or even just beginning to think about the way they do things. I think that this is true about many situations in life.

Now it is about informed decision making. I would rather focus my positve energies on empowerment to support those to make changes to the way they do things.
Click to expand...


Syringomyelia Symposium.


Cardinia,

Glad I did'nt give you any offence, what I am glad about though is what has resulted from the Pedigree Dog Exposed TV Program.

The next thing I do hope for is the Puppy Contract to appear.

I do hope you will be able to give us your thoughts about the Symposium.

What I am wondering about is, I know that the Cavaliers' Heads have changed over the Past 25 years or so, have the Griffons' Heads also changed ,Have I given you Food for Thought.

I would love to know the answer to this.

Bet
 
Hi all,

I attended the symposium held by the Griffon Bruxellois Club on Sunday. Clare Rusbridge gave a talk in the morning and then answered questions, Jeff Sampson in the afternoon.

Clare gave a talk on SM and CM relevent to the griffon. How to update, I am not sure whether any of Clare's information in reference to the CKCS will be new info for you guys on this site. If you are interested in the research updates with the griffon, I can post.


Jeff Sampson indicated that the KC within the last 6 months have become pro active with health concerns in the pedigree dog. He acknowledged Clare Rusbridge research incidents of the % of CKCS with CMSM. He explained and discussed the EBV's for the CKCS which Sarah Blott has been working on at the genetic centre at the animal health trust.

He discussed line/in breeding and the genetic impact of using popular stud dogs.

He explained the KC position on mandatory health testing. Which can only become mandatory with the full consent of all of the breeders in a breed registering their litters with the KC. Which has happened for example with a condition in the red setter.

A review of the 2008 registrations of litters indicated that approx 70% of breeders registered only 1 litter a year. The % of a single breeder registering large numbers of litters was small.

I was unable to stay until the end, so missed some of the question and answers.
 
I've just remebered Clare discussed her recent attendance at a conference for humans who have the condition.

In her knowledge of humans with the condition she explained that there was also a clear incidence of inheritance in the TARTARS an ethnic group from Russia (or a province or country near there).

She also explained an observation of a sufferor who when his arm was touched with an ice cube, indicated that there was intense hot burning and pain. This can be interpreted that the brain is not recieving or interpreting the correct information in regard to the stimulas. So what might be a gentle human touch can for the dog be extremely painful.
 
I am told Jeff also said that linebreeding is inbreeding -- and that 80% of genetic material is lost per generation, so use of popular sires is very damaging to any breed. Also he seems to now accept the very high rate of the problem of SM in cavaliers -- in Pedigree Dogs Exposed he was stating only 2% seemed to have the condition (quoting the KC breed survey, which was a self-reporting survey, not very scientific), but an attendee said he was indicating now that perhaps 60% to 80% affected rate in cavaliers were the figures he was now hearing back. That is a very significant shift in perspective on cavaliers! I wonder what caused him to change his perspective?

Griffons are in a much better situation where there are at least many dogs without CM or SM so breeders are moving at a good time to start to address the issue.
 
The skull shape changes with CM, a dog can have smaller frontal sinuses. Clare explained the research of the study on skull shape and skull xrays in the griffon.
Though there has been a study of griffon skulls and xrays, even with all her experience she can not by looking at a dog say that the dog has the condition without the evidence of the MRI.

The signs of CMSM can be very subtle and the 2 common signs are pain and withdraw. Scratching is only seen in some cases. Chari like associated pain can cause pain and scratching and rubbing head on ground. Surgery can be helpful for chari associated pain. Clare indicated that CM itself can be painful and a dog with CM but without SM can exhibit signs of discomfort such as face rubbing and crying out when touched in the area of neck and head.
Surgery in humans sees a reverse of the size of the syrinx this is not the case in dogs and is still present after surgery. Evidence suggests that surgery does not prevent SM from getting worse but is an option for controlling pain

Early onset greater disabilty. Prognosis guarded if wide syrinx and first clinical signs before 4 years of age.

Research genome CKCS, DNA for syringomyelia. Griffons Bruxellois, DNA for CM, next stage is fine mapping of 2 SNPS on 2 chromosones. (I think). The reserch has been limited by the number of dogs scanned. Need to scan more griffons so that more CMSM free dogs can be found.

180 griffons have been scanned world wide

48 were UK dogs -
22 with SM
26 do not have SM
only 3 of these dogs were CM free

world wide statistics

180 griffons scanned
94 of 180 have SM
86 of 180 do not have SM
34 of these 180 were CM free.

In a small case reveiw of 14 CKCS, 50% progressive, 50 % non progressive, 50 % of dogs were medically managed, 36% were euthanised, 43% survived at 9 years of age. I think she said that this was similar results to a population of TARTARS who also suffer with the human form of the condition, obviously not the euthanised part!

My understanding of the breeding guidelines for the griffon:

Eliminate SM early onset dogs from any breeding plans. The best posibility for reducing the incidents of SM is to:
breed young clear dogs to older clear dogs and a D scanned dog should be breed to an older scanned clear dog. Young clear scanned dogs can be bread to young clear scanned dogs but remembering that SM is a late onset condition so the condition may appear as a young dog matures.

Evidence indicates that A to A matings are mainly getting A's

The BVA/KC guidelines will be discussed and hopefully finalised this month. The ideal situation will be scanning dogs three times for example from 1 year and then 3 year then again at 6+ years which would give a good indication of the dogs CMSM status. Which will be very useful for knowing the geneology status and the history of any future litters. This may not be practical but a scan at 1 year then at 6+ years will give valuble information to an owners knowledge of their breeding dogs.

1st scan will identify condition or absence
2nd scan will confirm a clear status
3rd scan at 6+ valuble to knowledge of breeding stock

Its really important to increase the number of scanned griffons and identify the CM free griffons.
 
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Karlin said:
I am told Jeff also said that linebreeding is inbreeding -- and that 80% of genetic material is lost per generation, so use of popular sires is very damaging to any breed. Also he seems to now accept the very high rate of the problem of SM in cavaliers -- in Pedigree Dogs Exposed he was stating only 2% seemed to have the condition (quoting the KC breed survey, which was a self-reporting survey, not very scientific), but an attendee said he was indicating now that perhaps 60% to 80% affected rate in cavaliers were the figures he was now hearing back. That is a very significant shift in perspective on cavaliers! I wonder what caused him to change his perspective?
Click to expand...

Yes that is correct, Jeff was indicating that he accepted the high rate of SM in cavaliers.

Griffons are in a much better situation where there are at least many dogs without CM or SM so breeders are moving at a good time to start to address the issue
Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct. Some of the griffons scanned were related and known to have relatives with and without SM or CM or both. Some came in to the research like my girls because I made the decission to have my dogs scanned.
 
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