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Mvd

phanmale

Member
Hi,
This is an introduction as much as an MVD post - ironically I found this forum when we got our diagnosis and found that a fellow Kentish CKCS owner thought her dog might have MVD.

I rehomed Charlie from Battersea in March 2006, and apart from being extremely overweight, (over 15kgs)they couldnt give me any history although his health (including his heart) was sound. They estimated his age to be between 3-5 years old

In March 2007, I took him to our vet for his annual booster and was told they could hear a heart murmur, although we had done well with his weight loss - he was down to 13.5kgs, and again, outside of the murmur, a healthy, happy dog :)

March 2008 - 12kgs, March 2009 10.5kgs and advised castration on the basis that as he was getting older, although still overweight, it was safer and would be better for his long term health than to leave it longer and give him an anaesthetic in later life, so we agreed to go ahead with the op. He recovered well from the op and after the initial moping through being a bit sore, we noticed his already soppy temperament was even more loving and caring, and he appeared to "better behaved" on walks (coming to call, etc)

This March we took him to the vet and was told he had a heart murmur. "I was told that for the last 3 years, has it got worse?" The vet advised that they have to alert their findings, although there was no change. I didnt realise at that time there were degrees of heart murmur, so I dont know where he was at at this time. However, she did advise that as he was getting older that he may start to develop a cough and urinate unexpectedly.

4 weeks ago (not quite 3 months on) Charlie developed a harsh cough and sounded like he was wheezing. I immediately telephoned the vet who advised to bring him in, and they gave him 40mg frusemide twice daily and 5mg vetmedin twice daily, to take him back in a week to see how he goes. Within 3 days Charlie was much brighter and coughing and wheezing less than previously. We told the vet this at our next visit and he said he would like to perform a heart scan to rule out any heart problems, but as the vetmedin would influence the scan results to stop the tablets. Again a couple of days went by and Charlie was a state :( I thought he was going to go in my arms - he had no life and was just struggling to breathe. Another telephone call told us to put Charlie back on the frusemide but not the vetmedin as they wanted as clear a result for the heart scan as possible.

Another improvement and Charlies heart scan day. The news was heartbreaking - Charlie has advanced MVD - an enlarged heart which is compressing his breathing tube, and fluid on his lungs. I asked about longevity and was told that they cannot give a time, but months not years.

He is now on 5mg Vetmedin twice a day, 20mg Frusemide twice a day and 2x 5mg benazepril. A further weeks check specified that he is coping well on the tablets, but they are just making him comfortable - the outlook hasnt changed. I asked if there would be a deteriation or if it will be sudden and again was told there is no answer - just to expect Charlie to start slowing down but there is a possibility of a heart attack. Charlie has taken to sleeping anywhere other than his bed, and at night sleeps at the bottom of the stairs - very uncharacteristic for him. I wont get up in the morning until a family member beats me to it as I dont know how I would face the inevitable.

I guess what I really would like to know now is if anyone has had a ckc with MVD and if you could tell me what to expect, how to make Charlie as comfortable as possible etc. Exercise is practically out of the question - his minds fit, but his body cant keep up. There was a time when the door would open and we would have to chase him down the street - he struggles to cross the front doorstep now :(

Im sorry for my very long post but I really hope someone can help me - I think if I have a better understanding as to why this has come on so fast, I will be able to prepare mentally.......
 
Hi

Your post is very sad. Unfortunately MVD is very common in this breed.
I cannot give you any advice but I know there are people here who will.
My heart goes out to you, Charlie and your family, I am so sorry this happened.

kind regards.
 
Last edited:
Hi,
This is an introduction as much as an MVD post - ironically I found this forum when we got our diagnosis and found that a fellow Kentish CKCS owner thought her dog might have MVD.

I rehomed Charlie from Battersea in March 2006, and apart from being extremely overweight, (over 15kgs)they couldnt give me any history although his health (including his heart) was sound. They estimated his age to be between 3-5 years old

In March 2007, I took him to our vet for his annual booster and was told they could hear a heart murmur, although we had done well with his weight loss - he was down to 13.5kgs, and again, outside of the murmur, a healthy, happy dog :)

March 2008 - 12kgs, March 2009 10.5kgs and advised castration on the basis that as he was getting older, although still overweight, it was safer and would be better for his long term health than to leave it longer and give him an anaesthetic in later life, so we agreed to go ahead with the op. He recovered well from the op and after the initial moping through being a bit sore, we noticed his already soppy temperament was even more loving and caring, and he appeared to "better behaved" on walks (coming to call, etc)

This March we took him to the vet and was told he had a heart murmur. "I was told that for the last 3 years, has it got worse?" The vet advised that they have to alert their findings, although there was no change. I didnt realise at that time there were degrees of heart murmur, so I dont know where he was at at this time. However, she did advise that as he was getting older that he may start to develop a cough and urinate unexpectedly.

4 weeks ago (not quite 3 months on) Charlie developed a harsh cough and sounded like he was wheezing. I immediately telephoned the vet who advised to bring him in, and they gave him 40mg frusemide twice daily and 5mg vetmedin twice daily, to take him back in a week to see how he goes. Within 3 days Charlie was much brighter and coughing and wheezing less than previously. We told the vet this at our next visit and he said he would like to perform a heart scan to rule out any heart problems, but as the vetmedin would influence the scan results to stop the tablets. Again a couple of days went by and Charlie was a state :( I thought he was going to go in my arms - he had no life and was just struggling to breathe. Another telephone call told us to put Charlie back on the frusemide but not the vetmedin as they wanted as clear a result for the heart scan as possible.

Another improvement and Charlies heart scan day. The news was heartbreaking - Charlie has advanced MVD - an enlarged heart which is compressing his breathing tube, and fluid on his lungs. I asked about longevity and was told that they cannot give a time, but months not years.

He is now on 5mg Vetmedin twice a day, 20mg Frusemide twice a day and 2x 5mg benazepril. A further weeks check specified that he is coping well on the tablets, but they are just making him comfortable - the outlook hasnt changed. I asked if there would be a deteriation or if it will be sudden and again was told there is no answer - just to expect Charlie to start slowing down but there is a possibility of a heart attack. Charlie has taken to sleeping anywhere other than his bed, and at night sleeps at the bottom of the stairs - very uncharacteristic for him. I wont get up in the morning until a family member beats me to it as I dont know how I would face the inevitable.

I guess what I really would like to know now is if anyone has had a ckc with MVD and if you could tell me what to expect, how to make Charlie as comfortable as possible etc. Exercise is practically out of the question - his minds fit, but his body cant keep up. There was a time when the door would open and we would have to chase him down the street - he struggles to cross the front doorstep now :(

Im sorry for my very long post but I really hope someone can help me - I think if I have a better understanding as to why this has come on so fast, I will be able to prepare mentally.......


MVD

I just don't know what to say about Charlie,the one thing is there seems to be Two Types of Heart Trouble in our Cavalier Breed.

One which seems to progress slowly ,and the other which advances quickly.

We are Cavalier Pet Owners just like you, and have gone through what you are going through just now with Charlie, so I can sure Sympathize with you,all you can do is make him as comfortable as possible, and Grit your Teeth when you feel he is Suffering.

Bet
 
Thank you for your replies - and being there. I reread my post this morning and was in floods of tears again, but I had to go out for a bit this afternoon and left Charlie with my son. It was great to be met by Charlie and his tail wag and who is getting very good taking his tablets now - he thinks they are treats! Any chance a Charlie gets to be spoiled and they take it, hey? :)

Thanks again everyone

Jan
 
Hello ,
I am sorry to hear about Charlie. I like to share my experience with you .I had a cavalier called Prince who was diagnosed with grade 4 heart murmur when he was 9, he was on fortekor and frusemide for a number of years, and then vetmedin, frusemide when he was 12.These medication kept him comfortable for a long time. He finally succumbed to the MVD with a sudden arrhythmia when he was 14, a good old age. Prince had a very good quality of life, a happy dog, tail always wagging , he liked chasing squirrels and ball, until his last 1-2 years, when he had difficulty breathing and has fainting spells. Prince avoided the stairs, and I was told by the cardiologist they are very bad for dogs with advanced MVD. I also limit his exercise in the park. I used to carry Prince up the stairs and he slept under the bed. I hope the medication will help Charlie for some time to come.

I now have two cavaliers ,Paris(black &Tan) ,age 4 and Daffy (Bleinheim) age 5. Daffy was diagnosed with moderate SM last year and is currently medically managed by Clare Rusbridge. Paris is clear of SM. Both are clear of heart murmur.

Daffymum
 
I am also very sorry to read about Charlie, I am the owner of a 10 year old cavalier who started to have symptoms of a cough at nearly 9 yrs old - he has a grade 4 murmur, he had ECG and heart scan last year and was put on 1 Fortekor tablet per day and various doses of Frusemide to reduce the fluid and he has 1/2 per day now, he has been on meds for about 18 months and going very well, he sleeps a lot in the day, but loves his walks and gives it his all, and monitored every three months. I do hope that the medication will help Charlie and improve his quality of life.
 
Thank you again for the new posts. It is becoming apparent that Charlie's MVD seems to have got to the advanced stage a lot sooner in life and a lot quicker than the stories of your Cavaliers - obviously without any history I cannot say if his parents had the same symptoms or if it was just a case that his previous owner treated him just that bit too well.

Battersea were of the opinion that he was a well looked after dog, his toe nails had been recently clipped and his coat was well groomed. The only criticism was that he was so overweight. We will never know why he ended up in the dogs home as no-one phoned to claim him, but when we first got him, and tried to take him out on his lead, he would go to the car and sit down. If we opened the door, he would jump into the footwell! These are great memories that will never leave.

The comments about him being carried up the stairs - I never gave it a thought that his refusal could be that he *cant* manage, I just assumed he didnt want to. I will try that tonight and let him roam upstairs and decide where he wants to go I think.

Regarding the vets, after his initial weekly visits for the last 4 weeks, the vet has given us enough medication to see us through till his next visit in 6 weeks. Id like to hope that there is no deteriation in that time - 6 weeks seems nothing, but then I saw how quickly he became so ill when we stopped the tablets on advice, so it is only hope Im holding on to. Who knows, Charlie might put a new paragraph in the text books as defying all the rules regarding MVD ;)

Smiling through the tears, thanks again for your support, it really helps so much

Jan
 
Hi Tania,
I thought I had posted an update today, but I have been a bit brainfuzzled, so perhaps I didnt after all!
I asked Charlie if he wanted to go upstairs today and he was like "move aside mum, Im coming through!" He had to lay down immediately to catch his breath at the top though, and only minutes after getting comfortable and his breathing easing, he came back downstairs to sleep.
I havent attempted to walk him as well today, currently he is laying aside me, and although he has a fairly rythmic breathing rate, I can see a flicker behind his left front leg - Im assuming this is the tremor of his heart.

He seems very comfortable though - and sat patiently waiting looking up at "his cupboard" at dinner time, so for the time being at least, he hasnt lost his appetite!

I will keep you posted, thank you everyone for your support, it is very much appreciated :)
 
I'm sorry for not replying sooner - and so sorry that you are having to deal with MVD :(:(

Tragically 50% of Cavaliers have a murmur by the age of 5 - many breeders are trying very hard to reduce the incidence, but it is very widespread throughout the breed. As Bet says there does seem to be different types - some dogs have a murmur very early in life but never seem to get any worse and often it is something else that takes them - others have far more rapid progression in symptoms, which sadly seems to be the case with Charlie.

However the grade of murmur is not as significant as the symptoms they are showing - dogs with grade 5 murmurs may act "normally" for many months, others show quite severe symptoms at grade 3 or 4.


Carrying a lot of weight is a huge stress for the body particularly the heart and this may have contributed to his problems - you have done very well to slim him down.


I think the current hot weather is creating a lot of problems for our dogs - I'm not sure how much coat Charlie carries, but it might be worth thinking about having him clipped very short - others have found this to help. I know we all like our Cavaliers to look like Cavaliers and not be clipped off, but when it is for medical management reasons it is best for them to be as comfortable as possible.

Maybe a small fan near where he lies in the house would help too?

I suspect this might be why he is choosing to lie in different places rather than in his bed.


I would carry him up the stairs if he will let you - and just really allow him to do what he wants in terms of exercise. Often they want to go for a walk - go out the house, do 10 yards and then turn around to come back again. But it's great that they just want to do that...

Cut his food down if he's not exercising - not sure what you feed but something like Burns dry chicken and rice is good for keeping weight off - generally 10g per kg of dog {that's target weight not actual weight}. You can give human rice cakes for treats - very low in calories and salt. Obviously avoid anything salty. Veg and fruit are also good - no citrus, no apple pips or stem, no grapes. Carrots are usually popular, also the round bell peppers.


It's very hard to judge the progression/prognosis - all we can say is to enjoy every day, Charlie does not know he's that ill, and will still be enjoying life, albeit at a slower pace. Management wise - try to keep his weight off {although in later stages they tend to lose weight anyway, so keep him slim but not too slim}; avoid heat stress {keep him in the coolest room of the house particularly during the day; avoid too much over excitement - VERY hard with Cavaliers; avoid stress if possible.


You can try some natural supplements such as Co-Enzyme Q10 {30mg daily} and natural source Vitamin E 200 iu daily {NOT the supermarket ones which are a by product of the petroleum industry :eek:}. www.zipvit.co.uk have pretty good prices. These have both been shown to be of benefit.


Yes the flicker you can see behind Charlie's leg is his heart - this is known as a trill or thrill. There is more information about MVD on http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm {although written by Rod in the US but still very relevant to us too!}


The medication for MVD is very effective, it is getting the balance of meds right that can be difficult. Have you seen a cardiologist with Charlie? They are extremely knowledgeable and very helpful in managing the condition.

Dr B Koffas MVB PhD DipECVIM-CA(Cardiology) MRCVS
North Kent Referrals, Warren Road, Blue Bell Hill, Kent ME5 9RD
01634 666655

would I suspect be the nearest one to you - although check with http://www.bsava.org.uk/vcs/, heart testing on the left hand side. Your vet would need to refer you.


If I think of anything else I will add to this - anyway wanted to say that you are in our thoughts - sending healing, comforting thoughts to you and your family, and of course Charlie.

Please keep us posted
 
Charlie update

Thank you once again for your supportive replies, I havent seemed to be able to stop crying and felt very low. My sister took me to a local fun day on Saturday and when I came home my partner said that Charlie was like a new dog!
I have to say he has got a spring back to his step - albeit he still cant walk very far without wheezing, and although his nose is still dry, his eyes are much brighter and he has gone back to allowing us to throw his bone for him to fetch :) He has also developed a new shine to his coat (it went very dull) and tells us when its "toothbrush time" (he has a dentistix at 10pm and you can set your clock by him!) and in all honesty, if I hadnt seen the scan results, I would just put the wheeziness and occasional cough to him getting older. I appreciate we dont know how long we have got him still, but we give in a little bit more - he used to like to jump and sit with us on the sofa, now we just lift him and we've taken to walking him without a lead and let him go at his pace (although we dont usually get much further than across the road before he is struggling).

My partner and I took him to his favourite field on Sunday morning, before the sun was too high on the pretence we could carry him if it got too much. He used to run that field ragged and we could walk round it 3 times with Charlie still sniffing out all the foxholes, chasing the birds, this time he got half way round and just stopped. I asked if he wanted to go home and he just sat down :d*g: I opened the front door yesterday and it took me 10 minutes to coax him into the front garden, so Im guessing even short walks are on the cards now.

Nicki, thank you for taking the time to write with your tips, we had already instigated some of these as a trial to make him feel better.
He didnt like the fan, even when we placed it on the other side of the room, he moves away, he has taken to sleeping under the dining table which is in a room with laminate floor. It would appear it is in the shade, so we just let him sleep where he feels comfortable, we aren't making too big a thing of that. I did attempt to bring him upstairs, he had an explore and went back down, so again, unless he physically show signs of wanting to come up as opposed to just laying at the bottom, we will be guided by what he wants.

Walks are practically out of the question now, our back door is permanently open in the summer and he can come and go as he pleases, but he chooses not to, the same as the front - there was a time that we had to chase him down the street, but he just looks out and then trots back in the house now, even with my partner, my son and myself calling him out.

He has always had dry food and leans towards Bakers. We reduced his diet gradually on advice from the vet to get his weight down enough for the castration and was told there would possibly be some weight gain again afterwards. He was on the light version for a while but seemed to be permanently scavenging so the vet told us to put him back on the normal version, just slightly less.
We changed him to the senior meals a couple of months ago and he seems content on that, so I dont think Ill change it again now, but he has 130gms a day, so I could reduce it a little.
He always used to enjoy a carrot at lunchtime - again his body clock would have him sitting at the fridge waiting for his carrot, run out into the garden (or hide in a corner if it was raining ;)) and not come back until hed eaten it. Unfortunately we found a stash of carrots in the garden a couple of weeks back, he has been taking them out as per routine, hiding them and coming back in. We even broke one up to offer him pieces at a time, but he just dropped them on the floor. I will try him on rice cakes, I never thought of that, although wont they make him a bit dry? He is drinking loads since he has been on the diuretics.

After the initial consultation from the coughing and wheezing, Charlie was allocated a cardiology vet and we have had him ever since. He was the one that discussed the scan, gave us the results and then the follow up a week later. He has patience, and even through my bawling managed to explain MVD and how it is affecting Charlie so I am happy with him at the moment. We have enough tablets for another 4 weeks when we are due to back and see him, unless obviously anything happens in the meanwhile..

I am glad I wasnt imagining the "trill" though. I had never heard of it, or seen it before, although now it is so easily visible if he is lying down. I dont know if that means it is getting worse, or just that now I know what Im looking for, but my partner and my dad could see it when I told them about it yesterday.
Charlie was laying on the sofa with us yesterday morning and it was easy to feel the non-rhythmic beat - almost like a beat but then an echo, again Ive not noticed this before but it would describe what I can see.

I will update here as necessary, but for the time being at least, it looks like Ive been blessed with a bit more time with my loving boy :)

Btw, I have posted some pics on my profile if you havent already seen them. You will see how big Charlie was when we first got him - its hard to imagine he was ever *that* big!

Sending hugs to all the Charlies (and Charlie-esses of course!)
Jan
 
I have had a look at the pictures, Charlie is a real handsome boy. Thank you for sharing and thanks for the update.
 
keeping in touch

With the extreme hot weather back again, it's difficult to tell if Charlie is starting to struggle with his breathing again or if it is just the heat. The problem is he will insist on going out into the garden to sunbathe!

I think Ive said in my previous posts that he is allowed a few leniencies now - we leave the back door open and let him come and go as he pleases. He's gone back to being very lethargic and not doing much except sleep. He still has a good appetite atm - we've reduced his senior food down a little more to 100gms from 130gms and I am sure he's lost a little weight already (to look at, Ive not weighed him yet), but we tried him again on fresh carrot, which he used to love, and he just turned his nose up. A treat really is a treat now, where he used to gulp back a biscuit, he takes his time over it now - 3 small dog biscuits can take him up to half an hour to munch!

He hasn't been sleeping at the bottom of the stairs like he took to doing for a while, maybe his curiousity has been resolved when I let him up there the other day! It takes about 10 minutes to make him understand that he can go for a walk now - there was a time when you could go near his lead or the front door and he would go barmy but he really isnt coping with much more than a 5 minute walk around the housing estate now. I dont even bother with the stress of the lead as its only local and no busy roads, and he just plods behind me :(

The good thing is he is breathing deeply and although lazy, he seems rested, unlike the struggling for breath pre meds, so thats cool, the only time he seems to struggle is after exercise, so I really think the park walks are out now.

Ill update again if there is any change :paw:
 
Yayyyy!! Charlie has a wet nose!!!

For the 1st day in weeks, Charlie gave me a sloppy kiss today instead of rubbing my face with sandpaper :jmp:

Just thought Id share that with you:rah:
 
mvd

hi everyone
i just wanted to write on here to share my story
i dont want to sound morbid but its to give everyone an idea of what happens

my little ainsley past away a week ago he was 7
he has had a heart murmur for a few years but was diagnosed with mvd at easter this year
it seemed to progress very very quickly for ainsley
he was on vetmedin fruzemide and fortekor and things seemed ok for a while even with the coughing which he had quite often
he had an xray and ultrasound which showed an enlarged heart
then just under 2 weeks ago his stomach seemed to expand quite a lot and he was very week this was on the friday
i took him to the vet that day and was told he had a build up of fluid that he could not clear and also his heart rate had risen to 200 which his little body would not be able to sustain for very long. he was given another diaretic and i had to up the dose of the diaretic he was already on
i had to take him back to the vet on the monday to check the heart. on the saturday he seemed a little better and he actually wet himself so i took that as a sign that the new pill was working
on the monday we went back to the vet but his heart rate had risen to 240 which was not good so they recommended he have an ECG the next morning.
on the tuesday he went and had his ECG the results were not great and he was given a third diaretic and also a beta blocker just to try our best but really the quality of life was not great anymore and we were to take him back to the vet on the friday.
that tuesday evening after the ECG he had his new tablets at about 5.30pm but his stomach started to swell with fluid again
ainsley passed that evening at just after 7pm (tuesday 10th august 2010)
it was very quick he had no pain, but most of all he passed at home. i think it was his time and he made the decision to go himself rather than us struggle with the decision ourselves.
i just want to let people know that this is an awful and heartbreaking disease and ainsley was a very young dog. a lot of dogs live a good few years with this disease but it was not the case for us
ainsley had a very very good life and was extremely loved.
i hope my story can help someone else for what to look for and maybe when the time is to come
we were advised to keep ainsley cool and not to get too excited and no walks

thanks you for reading and any questions please feel free to ask

thanks x
 
Hi Joanne,

Sorry to hear about Ainsley. I read your post in private and then read it aloud to my partner and we both agreed that line for line (until more recent events) it is exactly how our Charlie's diagnosis came about.

I asked initially if people could tell us what to expect and cried for about a week when I realised he didnt have long. However, I was confident when I noticed the medication he was given made him so much more comfortable, almost to the point where we had forgotten he was ill (other than the fact he cant exert himself much without getting stressed and start coughing).
Although I was tearful whilst reading your post, it actually helped to hear how someone else coped with MVD and as the symptoms are so like for like, I assume he will follow similar to the end.

Suffice to say, our own update, Charlie had his 6 week check last Tuesday and the vet was pleased that he has responded well to the meds. He told me not to be concerned about his dry nose and that, even though he is hardly having any exercise now, through reducing his food slightly, we have helped him lose 1.1lb since his last visit :)
I have noticed he has started to go grey now, and that his hair is coming out in clumps rather than the usual moult, but he seems a happy little chappy :)

I had to clip his nails, I hadnt realised without the walks how quickly his nails would grow, but I only managed to do his front and dew claws before he became too stressed - I could physically feel his heart beating, normally this would be quite an easy task.

One thing Im struggling with is the cross between making Charlie comfortable (not over exertion with play/walks etc, general grooming...) and letting him do what he wants - running round the field even though he conks out so quickly, eating what he wants... Ive cut down his food to help him lose weight, but hes still scavenging, theres definitely no sign of loss of appetite atm!!
 
Sorry to pull up an old post, I've been meaning to get on here for ages, but it never happened :(

I just wanted to let you know that I finally made the decision today to let Charlie go. I've just re-read my original message and knowing how I'm hurting right now, I can't imagine how I felt when I first found out about his heart disease.

He put up a brave fight to the end, forever a waggy tail, but his breathing has been deteriorating rapidly over the last couple of weeks and even with an increase of his frusemide, his condition really wasn't improving.

I stayed with him to the end and I'm very glad I did - he was his usual "no fuss" lad, just sat there while they shaved his paw and then helped him to peaceful sleep. The strangest thing was not hearing him snoring! But it was also a great relief to not hear him wheezing while he lay there, which he has been doing in his sleep for a few days.

I opted for cremation and communal scattering, and intend to have a memorial plaque made for him.

Thank you to everyone for your messages, it was a great help knowing how to cope at the end.

R.I.P. Charlie, you may be gone, but you'll never be forgotten! cavtiny
 
I'm so sorry :( may Charlie be playing free from pain and smiling down.

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