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Thread: From Advisory Council's Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin.

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    Default From Advisory Council's Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin.

    Professor S. Crispin, the Newly appointed Chairman of the Advisory Council, has just written an Article in this week's Dog World,in a comment she mentions how the World of Dogs is Riven by arguments,I for sure can bear witness to that Statement!.

    Last Week in a Discussion on the Dog World Forum which involved taking Dogs to Shows in the Hot Weather,I got involved in in some very Nasty comments made to me by some Cavalier Folk.

    I sure was given a Very Hard Time.

    What is it with some Cavalier Breeders and Owners that they will persist in trying to hide from the Public that the Cavaliers have NO Health Problems.

    They are not doing our Breed any Favours in having this Attitude.

    It is a fact that SM ,which is Reported by Research Neurologists that this is becoming Very Wide-Spread in Cavaliers in all Blood-lines.

    It was recently reported in February 2010, Dr G. Child ,a Board Certified Veterinary Neurologist in Australia,had MRI Scanned 60 Asytomatic Cavaliers as Potential Breeding Stock .

    50% of those Cavaliers had SM Syrinxes.

    The MVD Resarchers have now said that 50% of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of Age,and that there now could be many Cavaliers Carriers of the MVD Gene/Genes.

    Why do some in the Cavalier World keep up the Pretence that the Cavaliers are a Healthy Breed ,and hurl Abuse at some of us who love Cavaliers when we know differently.

    Professor Crispin said in her Article that ,the Advisory Council know that there are Various Issues regarding Inherited Diseases in certain Breeds and this will be being addressed .

    I would think that the Cavalier Breed will be one of those Breeds,since Professor Sir P. Bateson particularly made mention about the SM Problem in Cavaliers in his Recently Published Report.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default From Advisory Council 's Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    Professor S. Crispin, the Newly appointed Chairman of the Advisory Council, has just written an Article in this week's Dog World,in a comment she mentions how the World of Dogs is Riven by arguments,I for sure can bear witness to that Statement!.

    Last Week in a Discussion on the Dog World Forum which involved taking Dogs to Shows in the Hot Weather,I got involved in in some very Nasty comments made to me by some Cavalier Folk.

    I sure was given a Very Hard Time.

    What is it with some Cavalier Breeders and Owners that they will persist in trying to hide from the Public that the Cavaliers have NO Health Problems.

    They are not doing our Breed any Favours in having this Attitude.

    It is a fact that SM ,which is Reported by Research Neurologists that this is becoming Very Wide-Spread in Cavaliers in all Blood-lines.

    It was recently reported in February 2010, Dr G. Child ,a Board Certified Veterinary Neurologist in Australia,had MRI Scanned 60 Asytomatic Cavaliers as Potential Breeding Stock .

    50% of those Cavaliers had SM Syrinxes.

    The MVD Resarchers have now said that 50% of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of Age,and that there now could be many Cavaliers Carriers of the MVD Gene/Genes.

    Why do some in the Cavalier World keep up the Pretence that the Cavaliers are a Healthy Breed ,and hurl Abuse at some of us who love Cavaliers when we know differently.

    Professor Crispin said in her Article that ,the Advisory Council know that there are Various Issues regarding Inherited Diseases in certain Breeds and this will be being addressed .

    I would think that the Cavalier Breed will be one of those Breeds,since Professor Sir P. Bateson particularly made mention about the SM Problem in Cavaliers in his Recently Published Report.

    Bet
    From Advisory Council 's Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin

    I think this comment on an other Cavalier Forum sums up what I was mentioning in my Post.

    That there is no other Breed except the Griffons who have had nowhere near the Bad Publicity that the Cavaliers have endured.

    How is it Bad Publicity for our Cavalier Breed to mention that 50% of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of age ,and that the SM Researchers say that SM is becoming very Wide-Spread in Cavaliers in all Blood- Lines.

    When this is what is being said by the Experts, why should those Facts be being hidden in case it is giving bad Publicity to the Cavalier Breed.

    If these facts were not true ,the Researchers would not be saying them.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default From Advisory Council's Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    From Advisory Council 's Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin

    I think this comment on an other Cavalier Forum sums up what I was mentioning in my Post.

    That there is no other Breed except the Griffons who have had nowhere near the Bad Publicity that the Cavaliers have endured.

    How is it Bad Publicity for our Cavalier Breed to mention that 50% of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of age ,and that the SM Researchers say that SM is becoming very Wide-Spread in Cavaliers in all Blood- Lines.

    When this is what is being said by the Experts, why should those Facts be being hidden in case it is giving bad Publicity to the Cavalier Breed.

    If these facts were not true ,the Researchers would not be saying them.

    Bet

    FROM ADVISORY COUNCIL'S CHAIRMAN PROFESSOR SHEILA CRISPIN

    I think this could be Relevant to my Previous couple of Posts .

    There seems to much Squabbling going on just now amongst some Cavalier Breeders about the SM Problem in our Breed as to what what should be or not being believed about MRI Scan Results and excuses being made about what should be done or not be done about the Cavaliers' SM Trouble.

    Is the simplest answer to this ,have Cavaliers MRI Scanned ,and Don't Breed from those with SM

    OK ,not much is known about this Vile Disease , only that Cavaliers according to the Researchers are more affected by it than other Breeds ,why this should be is not yet known.

    Hopefully through the Research going on ,this answer will be found,but surely at the the moment the Best Advice is, Don't Breed from a Cavalier who has SM ,and the Kennel Club to give their support, by not Registering Puppies whose Parents have not been MRI Scanned to show that they don't have SM.

    Has Any-body else a Better Idea about tackling this Problem?

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default

    As proper scrutiny of health and breeding issues has finally come to the fore, due to the health crisis so many breeds are now facing and the shockingly small amount of genetic diversity left in many breeds -- some breeders will be squealing loudly to try and kept such issues hidden. Those are the squawks of panic.

    All the breeders that I know of who are truly concerned with health -- even when they have differing opinions of how the issues should be handled and what is the best way forward -- welcome the increased scrutiny. So many of them have dealt with years of being publicly belittled on discussion lists or in conversation or pressured by clubs and committees -- for trying to do the best by the breed and its health, raising buyer awareness, and pushing for research -- rather than simply lining their own trophy shelves and pockets and wanting health statistics to go away. Greater scrutiny and outside concern is at last giving these issues the airing and examination many breeders feel is needed.

    A former breed club member in the US, gives eloquent expression to how head-in-the-sand the national clubs and many breeder members are here:

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...455#post365455

    Don't let the self-protecting outcry of the few on such comments threads deceive anyone into thinking this is THE breeder position -- it isn't, but sadly does tend to reflect the position of many breed club committees -- which can be highly misrepresentative of the concerns of many of their members,. Unfortunately most of the decent people tend not to want to be in the heat and pressure of committees not least because they know these crusty old attitudes and this breed-damaging protectionism is most reflected on committees devoted to making sure there's no real change, no damaged puppy sales, no increased personal costs due to needing to do the right thing and test, remove attractive/winning but health-compromised (or risky) dogs from breeding programmes, and so on. But truly: there's quiet relief among many, many breeders that at last all these issues are out in public and there's greater awareness on the part of the puppy buying public to push more breeders to focus on health, not trophies and puppy sales. Buyers, by demanding appropriate testing and focus on health, by demanding regulations if necessary to insure appropriate testing and breeding practice -- have greater power than any single other source of changing things for the betterment of the breed.

    Bet, I actually think it is so helpful when certain people make those types of unpleasant posts, publicly, on these issues -- such posts only appeal to the same group of cronies anyway, and to any normal person, are so utterly condemning of this particular breeder mindset, and provide such ugly evidence of how these people really think (and how cruel and shameless and childish they are, attacking people in such direct and personal ways). Such posts make wonderful evidence for panels (no wonder there have been several formal investigating groups now as many people just keep sending in these comments as evidence that breed clubs and many breeders do need regulation and intense scrutiny and clearly have neither the breed nor the pet buyer to heart -- they have thus managed to turn the issue into a consumer issue as well in the UK). Their comments make them appear so ugly and distasteful to any thinking and caring person -- especially to those totally outside that closed breeding world they represent! that they really only repeatedly destroy their own credibility and undermine their misguided cause. And that is why it is always worth copying such comments for submission to MPs, the dog investigation panels, etc.

    Best advice is to just shrug them off as they hang themselves with such posts, and they do get submitted as evidence of a certain mindset. And in some cases -- consider what would drive such determination to keep health information and research results hidden and suppressed.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Default I have blogged my APGAW submission

    The Advisory Council is being set up because of concerns raised in the wake of the film Pedigree Dogs Exposed.
    There were three official reports. I have just blogged part of my submission to the APGAW Enquiry.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    Default From advisory council's chairman professor sheila crispin

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    As proper scrutiny of health and breeding issues has finally come to the fore, due to the health crisis so many breeds are now facing and the shockingly small amount of genetic diversity left in many breeds -- some breeders will be squealing loudly to try and kept such issues hidden. Those are the squawks of panic.

    All the breeders that I know of who are truly concerned with health -- even when they have differing opinions of how the issues should be handled and what is the best way forward -- welcome the increased scrutiny. So many of them have dealt with years of being publicly belittled on discussion lists or in conversation or pressured by clubs and committees -- for trying to do the best by the breed and its health, raising buyer awareness, and pushing for research -- rather than simply lining their own trophy shelves and pockets and wanting health statistics to go away. Greater scrutiny and outside concern is at last giving these issues the airing and examination many breeders feel is needed.

    A former breed club member in the US, gives eloquent expression to how head-in-the-sand the national clubs and many breeder members are here:

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...455#post365455

    Don't let the self-protecting outcry of the few on such comments threads deceive anyone into thinking this is THE breeder position -- it isn't, but sadly does tend to reflect the position of many breed club committees -- which can be highly misrepresentative of the concerns of many of their members,. Unfortunately most of the decent people tend not to want to be in the heat and pressure of committees not least because they know these crusty old attitudes and this breed-damaging protectionism is most reflected on committees devoted to making sure there's no real change, no damaged puppy sales, no increased personal costs due to needing to do the right thing and test, remove attractive/winning but health-compromised (or risky) dogs from breeding programmes, and so on. But truly: there's quiet relief among many, many breeders that at last all these issues are out in public and there's greater awareness on the part of the puppy buying public to push more breeders to focus on health, not trophies and puppy sales. Buyers, by demanding appropriate testing and focus on health, by demanding regulations if necessary to insure appropriate testing and breeding practice -- have greater power than any single other source of changing things for the betterment of the breed.

    Bet, I actually think it is so helpful when certain people make those types of unpleasant posts, publicly, on these issues -- such posts only appeal to the same group of cronies anyway, and to any normal person, are so utterly condemning of this particular breeder mindset, and provide such ugly evidence of how these people really think (and how cruel and shameless and childish they are, attacking people in such direct and personal ways). Such posts make wonderful evidence for panels (no wonder there have been several formal investigating groups now as many people just keep sending in these comments as evidence that breed clubs and many breeders do need regulation and intense scrutiny and clearly have neither the breed nor the pet buyer to heart -- they have thus managed to turn the issue into a consumer issue as well in the UK). Their comments make them appear so ugly and distasteful to any thinking and caring person -- especially to those totally outside that closed breeding world they represent! that they really only repeatedly destroy their own credibility and undermine their misguided cause. And that is why it is always worth copying such comments for submission to MPs, the dog investigation panels, etc.

    Best advice is to just shrug them off as they hang themselves with such posts, and they do get submitted as evidence of a certain mindset. And in some cases -- consider what would drive such determination to keep health information and research results hidden and suppressed.

    FROM ADVISORY COUNCIL'S CHAIRMAN SHEILA CRISPIN

    Karlin,

    I for sure do agree with all you have just said in your Post.

    Hopefully many Cavalier Breeders will now realize that "TIMES THEY ARE A Changing",and that it only a Certain few Cavalier Breeders who wish to keep the Cavalier World as it has always been for so many years .

    That those of us who Truly Love our Cavalier Breed ,now can make our Thoughts known and do have every right to do this about the Health of Cavaliers ,also to question about the Breeding Policies of Certain Cavalier Breeders who profess to be interested in the Cavalier Health Problems ,.

    It is really we Cavalier Pet Owners who will be buying the Surplus Puppies from those Cavalier Breeders.so as the saying goes , that the Ball is in our Court, not to buy Cavalier Puppies from Cavalier Breeders who do not carry out Health Tests on their Breeding Stock.

    This Comment was on the UK CKCS CLUB WEB SITE last year made by the Previous CKCS CLUB Chairman ,.

    "There are many Members who are still not Prepared to Health Check their Breeding Stock ,and of those that do ,it would appear that many would not hesitate to Breed from Affected Animals".

    Hope fully those Cavalier Breeders have now had a Wake Up Call and have now taken heed of those Words.


    Finally ,speaking personally ,I never thought I would have endure such Vitriolic and Vicious Comments as those made to me on the Dog World Forum a Week ago , by some who were too Scared to give their Names and had to use a Pseudonym,or were those Comments being put into their Mouths by Other Cavalier Folk in the Back-Ground.just using those Cowards.

    This is also the week of the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE MEETING ,when the reason of my Resignation from the Club will be being read out.

    It had been mentioned on a Cavalier Public Forum on the Internet by a Newly Elected Member CKCS Committee ,who Questioned my State of Mind.

    Whether the CKCS CLUB will reply to me as to how they have dealt with matter ,I just don't know.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default From advisory council's chairman professor sheila crispin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    FROM ADVISORY COUNCIL'S CHAIRMAN SHEILA CRISPIN

    Karlin,

    I for sure do agree with all you have just said in your Post.

    Hopefully many Cavalier Breeders will now realize that "TIMES THEY ARE A Changing",and that it only a Certain few Cavalier Breeders who wish to keep the Cavalier World as it has always been for so many years .

    That those of us who Truly Love our Cavalier Breed ,now can make our Thoughts known and do have every right to do this about the Health of Cavaliers ,also to question about the Breeding Policies of Certain Cavalier Breeders who profess to be interested in the Cavalier Health Problems ,.

    It is really we Cavalier Pet Owners who will be buying the Surplus Puppies from those Cavalier Breeders.so as the saying goes , that the Ball is in our Court, not to buy Cavalier Puppies from Cavalier Breeders who do not carry out Health Tests on their Breeding Stock.

    This Comment was on the UK CKCS CLUB WEB SITE last year made by the Previous CKCS CLUB Chairman ,.

    "There are many Members who are still not Prepared to Health Check their Breeding Stock ,and of those that do ,it would appear that many would not hesitate to Breed from Affected Animals".

    Hope fully those Cavalier Breeders have now had a Wake Up Call and have now taken heed of those Words.


    Finally ,speaking personally ,I never thought I would have endure such Vitriolic and Vicious Comments as those made to me on the Dog World Forum a Week ago , by some who were too Scared to give their Names and had to use a Pseudonym,or were those Comments being put into their Mouths by Other Cavalier Folk in the Back-Ground.just using those Cowards.

    This is also the week of the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE MEETING ,when the reason of my Resignation from the Club will be being read out.

    It had been mentioned on a Cavalier Public Forum on the Internet by a Newly Elected Member CKCS Committee ,who Questioned my State of Mind.

    Whether the CKCS CLUB will reply to me as to how they have dealt with matter ,I just don't know.

    Bet
    FROM ADVISORY COUNCIL'S CHAIRMAN PROFESSOR SHEILA CRISPIN


    I think it will be OK to include this Post in this Thread .

    In a Prominant Cavalier Web-Site, which makes great mention of all things to do with Cavaliers, Photos etc, including advice to Prospective Cavalier Puppy Buyers ,it was sad to see that there was no mention of Buyers of Cavalier Puppy Buyers being told to ask to see a Heath Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder to Show that Health Tests had been carried out on the Pup's Sire and Dam.

    I think I am right in saying that the CKCS CLUB will now not accept Cavalier Puppies for Sale ,unless the Owners can produce a Health Certificate showing that the Puppies' Sire and Dam have been Health Tested.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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