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Thread: Shocked !!!!!

  1. #11
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    Hello. I think it is really great you are getting a vet to speak for this group!! To have 25 cav owners listen and pass on the knowledge is a big deal.... Kudos!!!
    Mom of Blondie aka The Monster, my furry daughter and loyal friend!!!!!!!!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindysmom View Post
    Even with SM suspected in 70% of the breed I would imagine many would be asymptomatic and would never have been tested.
    I think this is one of the real problems with SM. Most of the Cavaliers with SM are owned by non-breeders - just pet owners who have one or two dogs, probably neutered or spayed. Unless obvious symptoms occur, why should it even enter their heads to spend money (a LOT of money if you don't belong to a club) to have an apparently healthy dog scanned? If their dogs develop SM late, they may never have obvious symptoms - not all scratch, and you need a very keen eye to notice a dog has got a headache! In a way, as long as their dogs are not in obvious pain, it doesn't matter if no-one knows they've got SM - but it DOES matter to the breeder of the dog, who needs to know which of his/her stock is producing puppies who develop SM.

    I didn't have Oliver scanned at age 6 because he was showing any symptoms at all (in retrospect his mild light phobia was probably a symptom, but no one picked it up), but because 3 generations of his family had either had SM or produced a puppy with it, so I wanted to know whether Oliver had inherited it. But because I belong to the Cavalier and Midland Clubs, read the dog press and go to occasional shows, I was much more aware of SM than your average pet owner. I told Oliver's breeder as soon as he was diagnosed, and she immediately withdrew his father from stud (fortunately, in spite of being a champion, he'd never been a fashionable stud dog) and now scans all her stock (and at least one has SM). But most pet owners won't do this for apparently asymptomatic dogs as long as MRIs are expensive - yes, insurance may pay for a scan, but if the scan shows SM, this may count as a pre-existing condition (certainly will if you have to change insurers at any stage) and the owner is then on their own having to pay for medication when symptoms do appear. This is why it's so important to try and catch people and inform them BEFORE they buy their first Cavalier, so that (as far as is presently possible) the risk of SM is minimised.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

  3. #13
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    Default Shocked!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kate H View Post
    I think this is one of the real problems with SM. Most of the Cavaliers with SM are owned by non-breeders - just pet owners who have one or two dogs, probably neutered or spayed. Unless obvious symptoms occur, why should it even enter their heads to spend money (a LOT of money if you don't belong to a club) to have an apparently healthy dog scanned? If their dogs develop SM late, they may never have obvious symptoms - not all scratch, and you need a very keen eye to notice a dog has got a headache! In a way, as long as their dogs are not in obvious pain, it doesn't matter if no-one knows they've got SM - but it DOES matter to the breeder of the dog, who needs to know which of his/her stock is producing puppies who develop SM.

    I didn't have Oliver scanned at age 6 because he was showing any symptoms at all (in retrospect his mild light phobia was probably a symptom, but no one picked it up), but because 3 generations of his family had either had SM or produced a puppy with it, so I wanted to know whether Oliver had inherited it. But because I belong to the Cavalier and Midland Clubs, read the dog press and go to occasional shows, I was much more aware of SM than your average pet owner. I told Oliver's breeder as soon as he was diagnosed, and she immediately withdrew his father from stud (fortunately, in spite of being a champion, he'd never been a fashionable stud dog) and now scans all her stock (and at least one has SM). But most pet owners won't do this for apparently asymptomatic dogs as long as MRIs are expensive - yes, insurance may pay for a scan, but if the scan shows SM, this may count as a pre-existing condition (certainly will if you have to change insurers at any stage) and the owner is then on their own having to pay for medication when symptoms do appear. This is why it's so important to try and catch people and inform them BEFORE they buy their first Cavalier, so that (as far as is presently possible) the risk of SM is minimised.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled
    SHOCKED!!!!

    Is it because a Number Of Cavalier Breeders have been trying to keep quiet about the SM Problem in the Cavalier Breed that many Cavalier Owners are not aware of it.

    Is this really the Reason why there was such an Uproar after the PDE TV Program,that a lot of Cavalier Breeders just did not want this Health Problem known about to Cavalier Pet Buying Public.?

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  4. #14
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    Is it because a Number Of Cavalier Breeders have been trying to keep quiet about the SM Problem in the Cavalier Breed that many Cavalier Owners are not aware of it.
    I really don't think this is why. The information is out there. On our club website the 2nd item on our Frequently Asked page is SM (we are having some site issues right now so the link isn't working....but we are working on it). I think if you looked at where the majority of these dogs are coming from they are not coming from breeders who also show. Most of them are coming from pet stores and backyard breeders (I don't consider these people the types of "breeders" you are referring to).
    Cathy
    Loving mom to Jake, Shelby and Micah

  5. #15
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    I haven't found that any breeders I've talked to when I was looking for a pup tried to cover up SM - If I recall correctly each of them brought it up to me. I know that in Rylie's sales contract it specifically states that I'm agreeing that the breeder has discussed SM with me and that I understood that despite the clear scans of parents and grandparents this was no guarantee that Rylie would never develop SM. There are articles and on the health page of the Canadian CKCS association website regarding SM.
    Mindy Tri - Feb/97
    Max - Ruby - Sep/08
    Rylie - B&T - June/09

  6. #16
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    Default Shocked !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindysmom View Post
    I haven't found that any breeders I've talked to when I was looking for a pup tried to cover up SM - If I recall correctly each of them brought it up to me. I know that in Rylie's sales contract it specifically states that I'm agreeing that the breeder has discussed SM with me and that I understood that despite the clear scans of parents and grandparents this was no guarantee that Rylie would never develop SM. There are articles and on the health page of the Canadian CKCS association website regarding SM.

    SHOCKED!!!!!

    All I comment on is the Personal Experience I had with a number of Cavalier Breeders and the Cavaliers' MVD Problem here in Britain.

    We had Becky a B/T Cavalier who Developed Epilepsy, I contacted Dr. M Willis ,Geneticist, and sent him her Pedigree along with some others that I had collected, he got back to me saying to contact the Breeder of the Sire of Becky , I did this by Phone ,all I got Screamed at me was Bullsh.....,not just once but several times,also other Abusive Comments were made.

    I was also a Cavalier Breed Advisor for a Dog Magazine for a number of years , if Cavalier Buyers wanted a Cavalier Puppy ,I got the Names from the UK CKCS CLUB of Cavalier Breeders who had Cavalier Puppies available ,but I always said to Cavalier Puppy Buyers ,ask the Cavalier Breeder if the Puppy's Sire and Dam have been Health Tested for MVD.

    I was Shocked at the times the Cavalier Puppy Buyer would phone me back in tears and in a Distressed State when this Questioned had been asked to the Cavalier Breeder.

    This was Cavalier Club Member Breeders ,not other types of Cavalier Breeders.

    I just don't think it will be any different with the Cavalier SM Problem, when an attempt was made at a Recent CKCS CLUB AGM by some Cavalier Breeders not to allow the Breeding Guidelines for SM to be Passed.

    If you remember Margaret was removed from the CKCS CLUB Committee here in Britain at a Special GM called for by many Cavalier Breeders for having the Bravery to mention about the SM Cavalier Problem on the PDE TV Program.

    I think this says it all!!!

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  7. #17
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    Default Shocked !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    SHOCKED!!!!!

    All I comment on is the Personal Experience I had with a number of Cavalier Breeders and the Cavaliers' MVD Problem here in Britain.

    We had Becky a B/T Cavalier who Developed Epilepsy, I contacted Dr. M Willis ,Geneticist, and sent him her Pedigree along with some others that I had collected, he got back to me saying to contact the Breeder of the Sire of Becky , I did this by Phone ,all I got Screamed at me was Bullsh.....,not just once but several times,also other Abusive Comments were made.

    I was also a Cavalier Breed Advisor for a Dog Magazine for a number of years , if Cavalier Buyers wanted a Cavalier Puppy ,I got the Names from the UK CKCS CLUB of Cavalier Breeders who had Cavalier Puppies available ,but I always said to Cavalier Puppy Buyers ,ask the Cavalier Breeder if the Puppy's Sire and Dam have been Health Tested for MVD.

    I was Shocked at the times the Cavalier Puppy Buyer would phone me back in tears and in a Distressed State when this Questioned had been asked to the Cavalier Breeder.

    This was Cavalier Club Member Breeders ,not other types of Cavalier Breeders.

    I just don't think it will be any different with the Cavalier SM Problem, when an attempt was made at a Recent CKCS CLUB AGM by some Cavalier Breeders not to allow the Breeding Guidelines for SM to be Passed.

    If you remember Margaret was removed from the CKCS CLUB Committee here in Britain at a Special GM called for by many Cavalier Breeders for having the Bravery to mention about the SM Cavalier Problem on the PDE TV Program.

    I think this says it all!!!

    Bet
    SHOCKED !!!!!

    Forgot to say in my previous Post, the Orginizers of the Cavalier Blenheim Palace Show have to be Congratulated so much for putting such Emphasis on the SM and MVD Problems in the Cavalier Breed and making the Cavalier Buying Public so aware about them.

    Now the Cavalier Pet Buyers surely in the future will not be given Abusive Comments when they ask if the Cavalier Breeder does carry out Health Tests, and follows the Recommended Breeding Guidelines given by the CKCS CLUB since this Advice would be being given at the Blenheim Palace Show.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  8. #18
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    So that would be a giant move forward in the UK I'm thinking?
    Mindy Tri - Feb/97
    Max - Ruby - Sep/08
    Rylie - B&T - June/09

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