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Thread: Head size

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    Default Head size

    There's a photo in the Homes new book on Cavalier origins (p. 56) of Cannonhill Richey - a ruby result of a helf-brother/half-sister mating with Plantation Robert as the common parent, and father of the first champion, Daywell Roger - a very early (early 1940s) and influential Cavalier. Apart from having a rather more domed head (I think his father Plantation Robert was a King Charles or a KC son), he is the spitting image of my Oliver - certainly in head size, which in Oliver is a bit large for today's fashion. Yet Oliver has CM and SM. It's what happens at the base of the skull which seems to be important, not the actual size or look of the head. Clare Rusbridge has said that you cannot say that a Cavalier has CM/SM (or not) simply by looking at their head - it's what's happening inside the head which is important.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

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    Thanks Kate - I think it was a good idea to start this new thread to help keep the threads on topic.

    I am very interested in the head size conversation, because while my rescue Sparky is only a couple pounds smaller than Lucky, his head is about half the size. Here's a picture where you can see them together and the size difference is very evident:

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/a...achmentid=1209

    I haven't noticed any obvious signs of SM in either of them (knock on wood!!), but I still find this discussion fascinating given my dogs have such distinctly different heads.
    Lani
    (a.k.a. Lucky's & Sparky's mom!)

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    Hi Lani

    Is Lucky a boy (sorry, can't keep track of everyone's Cavaliers!)? You would expect a bitch's head to be smaller than a dog's, since they are usually smaller overall, and Sparky's head looks in proportion to her body. Weight is made up of so many factors (besides waistline!) - muscle weighs more than fat, for example, and good bone is also heavy, so you may by exercise get a leaner dog but not actually reduce weight beyond a certain level because overweight fat may be replaced by solid muscle. So Sparky's weight may have more to do with her overall look than the size of her head alone (and similar factors in Lucky's make-up may account for the closeness of their weights).

    Oops - we now seem to be off the topic of heads!! Hope Bet and Rod will get us back on track!

    Kate, Oliver and Aled (who is a Blenheim rescue with a small, quite narrow head and so far (at 3) no sign of SM)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate H View Post
    ... Oops - we now seem to be off the topic of heads!! Hope Bet and Rod will get us back on track!
    Yes, indeed, let us not veer from the topic: "Head size"!
    Rod Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate H View Post
    Is Lucky a boy?
    Both are boys, both eat roughly the same amount of the same food, and both exercise the same. I have met a lot of Cavaliers and proportionate to his body, I think Sparky's head is one of the smallest I have seen male or female. Sparky's definitely not the result of "good breeding" being a rescue from a puppy mill raid. But again, (fingers crossed) I haven't noticed any SM signs in either him or Lucky.

    So the point is, I am interested in this topic because my boy does have an abnormally small head.
    Lani
    (a.k.a. Lucky's & Sparky's mom!)

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    this is interesting, Cava (my female) has a tiny head, and is very very small overall, she is about 15 months, and Spud (male) has what i would consider a normal head (comparing him to other cav's) and he is bigger all round then Cava he is 8 months. They eat the same amount and are exercised together, and i havent noticed any signs of SM in either of them.(thank god)

    When ppl see me out with them they always think Cava is a young puppy and Spud is older, i can fit her whole head into the palm of my hand. Could the small head be from the dog being the runt in the litter? Cava was last out of her litter left so i cant compare her to the other pups, but her mam was 'normal' size, same size as Spud's mam.
    Clare
    owned by Cava a Tri Color, age 1 & Spud a Blenheim, age 8 months

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    Default Head size

    Quote Originally Posted by Kate H View Post
    There's a photo in the Homes new book on Cavalier origins (p. 56) of Cannonhill Richey - a ruby result of a helf-brother/half-sister mating with Plantation Robert as the common parent, and father of the first champion, Daywell Roger - a very early (early 1940s) and influential Cavalier. Apart from having a rather more domed head (I think his father Plantation Robert was a King Charles or a KC son), he is the spitting image of my Oliver - certainly in head size, which in Oliver is a bit large for today's fashion. Yet Oliver has CM and SM. It's what happens at the base of the skull which seems to be important, not the actual size or look of the head. Clare Rusbridge has said that you cannot say that a Cavalier has CM/SM (or not) simply by looking at their head - it's what's happening inside the head which is important.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled
    HEAD SIZE

    Thanks Kate for starting this new Thread.

    If I could put a wee bit of Cavalier History in my Post , CANNONHILL RICHEY ,had a Full Length Photo in the 1980 CKCS Year Book,yes he is an example of the Larger Head that I am talking about than many of to-days' Cavaliers, he lived to 12 as did his son Ch Daywell Roger.

    This is where Cannonhill Richey's Pedigree gets a wee bit interesting ,.

    There is a Cavalier or what ever they were called in those early days,in the Pedigree Back-ground of Cannonhill Richey, named RANGERS NICKY PICKY,B/T.

    For years no-body knew her Pedigree, she was always marked as Unknown in her Pedigree .Then a few years ago a letter was found at a Sale , where Rangers Nicky Picky 's Sire was discovered to be

    HENTZAU BUCK'S HUSSAR b/t,but still her Dam is not known.

    She was mated to KOBBA OF KORUNDA ,who has turned out to be her Half Brother,one of the Off-Springs from that mating was PLANTATION TWINKLES,born 25-6-1935.

    Plantation Twinkles was Cannonhill Richey's Grand-Mother.

    I will also mention Ch DAYWELL ROGER born 7-10-1945,his Sire CANNONHILL RICHEY is closely involved in HALF- BROTHER TO
    HALF -SISTER matings,but CH DAYWELL ROGER'S DAM ,DAYWELL NELL is the result of a FATHER TO DAUGHTER mating.

    Now if some of to-day's Cavalier's Heads are Larger and look like those Early Cavaliers that I v'e just mentioned, and still have SM ,did those early Cavaliers have the Genes for CM/SM.

    All I have said that many of to-day's Cavaliers' Heads are Smaller than they were in earlier years, never that this was what is causing SM.

    So if the CM/SM Genes have been around in our Cavalier Breed since the Breed originated in the 1920's and 1930's,

    then the Cavalier Breed could be in big trouble because of the many Cavalier Carriers of the CM/SM Genes that will be in to-days' Cavaliers

    Then this must show how it's so important to find both the Genes for MVD and CM/SM or else the Cavalier Breed is finished.

    What Kate's Post has shown,is that the Cavaliers' Head is not so important , it's the CM/SM Genes that have to being discovered.

    I am not really bothered about about the Size of the Heads of Cavaliers ,it's the finding of those Genes for CM/SM that is going to save the Cavalier Breed.

    I hope others will join in this Discussion and give their views as well.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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