Curious comment.

[Bet]

In this week's DOG WORLD'S Cavalier Notes is this comment from the Cavalier Writer,if the Kennel Club want's Breeders to come under it's Wing ,then unnecessary Testing will have to stop.

I just cannot understand this comment,surely the Columnist does not mean that there is unnecessary Testing for SM and MVD for our Cavaliers.

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[sins]

I saw that comment as well Bet.
I *think* what she means is that testing should be affordable for small breeders who produce an occasional litter and that in the case of scanning,a scheme that requires multiple scans would be prohibitive from a cost basis.
Hopefully the needs of breeders will be met without compromising the integrity or devaluing the effectiveness of a scheme designed to reduce the incidence of illness in the breed.
It's odd though that some breeders see health testing as an obstacle and an inconvenience and others see it as a useful tool and the bare minimum that should be done before producing a litter.
Many breeders still make the mistake of failing to factor in the requirements of the pet buying public into the equation.In the longterm,that may be the rock on which they perish..
Sins

[RodRussell]

"If the KC wants breeders to come under its wing, then unnecessary testing will have to stop." -- What an unbelievably ignorant statement! The problem is that NECESSARY TESTING -- necessary to preserve the genetic health of the breed -- is not being done by enough breeders. If a Cavalier breeder cannot afford to do the testing, then she should move on to help destroy some other breed.

[Margaret C]

"If the KC wants breeders to come under its wing, then unnecessary testing will have to stop." -- What an unbelievably ignorant statement! The problem is that NECESSARY TESTING -- necessary to preserve the genetic health of the breed -- is not being done by enough breeders. If a Cavalier breeder cannot afford to do the testing, then she should move on to help destroy some other breed.

Some of them are. A lot of Cavalier breeders are now moving over to Japanese Chins. They too have lots of health issues, but none that are recognised by the breed club or KC.

The meeting about the BVA/KC MRI Scheme yesterday was interesting and informative in more ways than one. The BVA people were visibly amazed at objections put forward by some of the breeders.
I hope to write up my impressions later today & post it on a new thread.

[sins]

Just to follow on regarding the "Curious comment".
The unnecessary testing referred to was Eye testing,although due to editing which was beyond the control of the writer the comment appeared out of context.
She says that it was the eye scheme she was talking about but the editor had removed her explanation.
I have been told the following, by a long standing breeder with regard to eyes:

In the great scheme of things eyes are the least of our problems. Before we had the KC/BVA Scheme we were advised to have our puppies litter screened, and then tested before they were bred. Unfortunately the KC do not have breed specific schemes and it's a "one size fits all" so now we have to have eyes screened yearly because some breeds like collies have genetic eye problems like PRA which can appear at any age. The two problems in cavaliers are Retinal Dysplasia which is present at birth and Hereditary Cataract which is normally found in young dogs. The only other known problem in cavaliers (in the UK) are ingrowing eyelashes which again can be detected when the dog is very young. It costs £45 to have an eye test, multiply this by four or five and it can be very expensive to have dogs screened annually when the results never change.

Sins

[Bet]

Just to follow on regarding the "Curious comment".
The unnecessary testing referred to was Eye testing,although due to editing which was beyond the control of the writer the comment appeared out of context.
She says that it was the eye scheme she was talking about but the editor had removed her explanation.
I have been told the following, by a long standing breeder with regard to eyes:


Sins

Curious Comment

Sins, I don't want to get into an argument about this, but would this be same Breeder you have just mentioned ,who is trying to give this explanation on the DW Forum ,why does the Columnist Writer herself not give her reason for saying what she said.

The Columnist said a few weeks ago in her Column in DW ,in her comments about MRI Scanning Cavaliers,that in her opinion ,the Likelihood of Members remaining in the Scheme as it stands is pretty Remote.

I challenged her on the DW Forum to give her reasons for saying this, but there was no answer from her.

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[Karlin]

"If the KC wants breeders to come under its wing, then unnecessary testing will have to stop." -- What an unbelievably ignorant statement! The problem is that NECESSARY TESTING -- necessary to preserve the genetic health of the breed -- is not being done by enough breeders. If a Cavalier breeder cannot afford to do the testing, then she should move on to help destroy some other breed.

Agree 100%. Whether this was discussing eyes or MRIs or hips or toenails -- the problem is that every single test is always disputed by a significant number (there are still plenty calling breeding for healthy hearts 'a crap shoot' yet funny isn't it, that they don't feel the same about cosmetic factors they choose when aiming for winning show ring dogs... ), and until recently most were (and many are still!) arguing that MRIs were only ever recommended to make money for screening centres. Such self-serving idiocy seems to have convinced nearly every Irish breeder, to their ongoing shame -- setting aside they already easily qualify as the nation of cavalier breeders that cares leasts about its breed especially given the large numbers in the breed here: they do almost no testing at all and the MVD protocol is something that barely impinges on their busy show-ring and puppy-selling lives... .

[Bet]

Agree 100%. Whether this was discussing eyes or MRIs or hips or toenails -- the problem is that every single test is always disputed by a significant number (there are still plenty calling breeding for healthy hearts 'a crap shoot' yet funny isn't it, that they don't feel the same about cosmetic factors they choose when aiming for winning show ring dogs... ), and until recently most were (and many are still!) arguing that MRIs were only ever recommended to make money for screening centres. Such self-serving idiocy seems to have convinced nearly every Irish breeder, to their ongoing shame -- setting aside they already easily qualify as the nation of cavalier breeders that cares leasts about its breed especially given the large numbers in the breed here: they do almost no testing at all and the MVD protocol is something that barely impinges on their busy show-ring and puppy-selling lives... .

CURIOUS COMMENT

Could I mention that there has been some Venemous Posts on the DOG WORLD FORUM this week about Cavalier Breeders Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

The Post from a very Vociferous Cavalier Breeder,really showed me what we Lovers of the Cavalier Breed are up against.

The usual Excuses were being given ,that the Health Problems in Cavalier were due to the Puppy Farmers and BYB's.

Here was my answer to that.

If the Cavalier Buying Public were advised to ask the Cavalier Breeder to see a Health Certificate to Prove that they were Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock ,and to see Proof that the Cavalier Breeder was also following the Breeding Guidelines ,Recommended by the Researchers into the SM and MVD in our Cavaliers,then the Puppy Farmers and BYB'S would be being asked the same Questions.

In the answer I got from this Particular Cavalier Breeder, who came down on me Like a Ton of Bricks, was an Emphatic ,NO.

I just can't understand whether this Cavalier Breeder is Scared maybe that the Cavalier Buying Public will also be asking this Question of Cavalier Club Members.

I know that there are Cavalier Breeders CKCS CLUB Members , who are so keen to Health Test their Cavalier Breeding Stock, but are there some CKCS CLUB Members who are Cavalier Breeders Running Scared to be having this Question put to them by the Cavalier Buying Public.

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[Bet]

CURIOUS COMMENT

Could I mention that there has been some Venemous Posts on the DOG WORLD FORUM this week about Cavalier Breeders Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

The Post from a very Vociferous Cavalier Breeder,really showed me what we Lovers of the Cavalier Breed are up against.

The usual Excuses were being given ,that the Health Problems in Cavalier were due to the Puppy Farmers and BYB's.

Here was my answer to that.

If the Cavalier Buying Public were advised to ask the Cavalier Breeder to see a Health Certificate to Prove that they were Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock ,and to see Proof that the Cavalier Breeder was also following the Breeding Guidelines ,Recommended by the Researchers into the SM and MVD in our Cavaliers,then the Puppy Farmers and BYB'S would be being asked the same Questions.

In the answer I got from this Particular Cavalier Breeder, who came down on me Like a Ton of Bricks, was an Emphatic ,NO.

I just can't understand whether this Cavalier Breeder is Scared maybe that the Cavalier Buying Public will also be asking this Question of Cavalier Club Members.

I know that there are Cavalier Breeders CKCS CLUB Members , who are so keen to Health Test their Cavalier Breeding Stock, but are there some CKCS CLUB Members who are Cavalier Breeders Running Scared to be having this Question put to them by the Cavalier Buying Public.

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CURIOUS COMMENT

I wonder if I could mention once again the Animosity displayed to me by a very prominant Cavalier Breeder on a Public Cavalier Forum ,just because I have dared to mention that I believe that the Cavalier Buying Public should be being made aware to ask to see a Health Certificate to Prove that the Cavalier Breeder is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock.and also Proof that the Cavalier Breeder is following the Breeding Guideline Recomendations given by the Cavalier Researchers into the SM and MVD in our Cavalier Breed of not Breeding from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of age, and to know about the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5.

By her response to my suggestion, I just don't think she is interested .

I have put more on my Blog about what has happened this Past Week.

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Bet.

[Teresa]

Any chance you could post the link to the Dog Worl Forum, I'd be interested nto have a nose myself!!

Thanks