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  1. #21
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    Default Curious comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathy Moon View Post
    Absolutely - this sort of thing has been going on for years and is a useful tool.

    CURIOUS COMMENT


    I have just had a Sickening Rant made against me on the DOG WORLD FORUM by a CKCS COMMITTEE CLUB MEMBER.

    If I could give you what I believe could maybe be the Back-Ground Reason to all the Abusive Comments I have been receiving lately.

    In a Cavalier Forum on the Internet, a Newly Elected Member of the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE questioned My State Of Mind.I wrote to the CKCS CLUB Committee with a Complaint about this. It was discussed at the last CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE ,as to whether I would receive a written Apology from the CKCS CLUB Committee about the Accusation made against me by this Committee Member.

    Also I had a Phone Call from the Chair -Person of the CKCS CLUB saying that she had forbidden any CKCS Committee Member to make any Personal Comments about any-body on Cavalier Forums on the Internet in the future.

    This apparently has been ignored by a CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE MEMBER in his Abusive Comments to me a short while ago.

    I will let you decide whether two and two make four for the Venemous Attacks being made against me.

    This is ,I believe because I have dared to mention the Two Serious Health Problems in our Cavaliers ,SM and MVD.

    I just wonder, am I beginning to hit a Raw Nerve.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  2. #22
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    I so agree with the last two comments!! Also Sins, loving the Darth Vader smiley!!!! Best laugh I've had all week

  3. #23
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    Hi Bet

    I am more than happy to post on DW in support of you Bet but to be honest you dont need it you are hitting them where it hurts so carry on Corporal Jones give em some cold steel .
    Rock on Bet.
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

  4. #24
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    Default Curious comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Hi Bet

    I am more than happy to post on DW in support of you Bet but to be honest you dont need it you are hitting them where it hurts so carry on Corporal Jones give em some cold steel .
    Rock on Bet.

    CURIOUS COMMENT

    Thanks for that ,Brian, I for sure feel like I am being a Female Cpl Jones at the moment, but it is all being worth while,some-things are now coming to light, it let's us Cavalier Lovers know where we stand with some of the Cavalier Breeders who have not done them-selves any Favours.

    If I could possibly mention this ,the Comment made by the Cavalier Breed Coluninist in DW about the Unnecessary Health Testingfor our Cavaliers recently in DW, she had also made a Statement in her Cavalier Breed Column in Dog World,27-7 -10,that in her Opinion, when she was commenting about the MRI SCANNING SCHEME for our Cavaliers, ,the Likelihood of Members Remaining in the Scheme as it Stands is Pretty Remote.
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  5. #25
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    Default Curious comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    CURIOUS COMMENT

    Thanks for that ,Brian, I for sure feel like I am being a Female Cpl Jones at the moment, but it is all being worth while,some-things are now coming to light, it let's us Cavalier Lovers know where we stand with some of the Cavalier Breeders who have not done them-selves any Favours.

    If I could possibly mention this ,the Comment made by the Cavalier Breed Coluninist in DW about the Unnecessary Health Testingfor our Cavaliers recently in DW, she had also made a Statement in her Cavalier Breed Column in Dog World,27-7 -10,that in her Opinion, when she was commenting about the MRI SCANNING SCHEME for our Cavaliers, ,the Likelihood of Members Remaining in the Scheme as it Stands is Pretty Remote.
    Sorry about this pressed a wrong key before I had finished.!!!!

    I asked her twice on the DW Forum what did she mean by this Statement ,what was wrong with the MRI Scanning Scheme ,but her silence was Deafening.

    Also I am known as well as Bet Hargreaves ,but also Cavalier Lover on the Dog World Forum. I had mentioned here yesterday about a CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE having a Rant at me on that Forum ,because he wanted the people to know that I am not qualified to be making the Statements that I am making about the Health Problems in our Cavaliers,I think because of the many Tears I have had through some of our Cherished dying at such a young age because of MVD, I am quite qualifed to let the Cavalier Buying Public be made aware ,to always ask to see a Health Certificate as Proof that they are Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and to Prove that they are following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations from the CKCS CLUB and the Researchers.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  6. #26
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    Default Curious comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    Sorry about this pressed a wrong key before I had finished.!!!!

    I asked her twice on the DW Forum what did she mean by this Statement ,what was wrong with the MRI Scanning Scheme ,but her silence was Deafening.

    Also I am known as well as Bet Hargreaves ,but also Cavalier Lover on the Dog World Forum. I had mentioned here yesterday about a CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE having a Rant at me on that Forum ,because he wanted the people to know that I am not qualified to be making the Statements that I am making about the Health Problems in our Cavaliers,I think because of the many Tears I have had through some of our Cherished dying at such a young age because of MVD, I am quite qualifed to let the Cavalier Buying Public be made aware ,to always ask to see a Health Certificate as Proof that they are Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and to Prove that they are following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations from the CKCS CLUB and the Researchers.

    Bet
    CURIOUS COMMENT.

    I am sorry to keep going on about this again, but Norma Inglis has mentioned in her Chatterbox Forum to-day ,that most of the Cavaliers' Health Problems are due to the Puppy Farmers and BYB's.Does she not understand that this is what a number of us are trying to get across to the Cavalier Buying Public ,only buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who will show as Proof a Health Certificate that their Cavalier Breeding Stock is being Health Tested .and Proof that the Cavalier Breeding Guideline Recommendations from both the CKCS CLUB and the Researchers into SM and MVD are being followed.

    This way the Puppy Farmers and BYB's will be being asked the same Questions.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  7. #27
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    Seriously Bet,anyone with a shred of dignity would withdraw from that appalling cyberbrawl on Dogworld comments.
    I've by now lost count of the potentially litigious comments made by cavalier breeders against each other.
    The reputation of the breed is far more likely to be destroyed by that kind of behaviour than by comments(fair or unjust) from pet owners.
    Sins

  8. #28
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    Yes this is a key point -- the importance of buying registered puppies from active kennel/cavalier club breeders who can produce and discuss the relevant health certs is exactly what the puppy buyer guides say on this site and many others that are concerned about HEALTH.

    The puppy farm issue is the favourite red herring of certain club members. As neurologists have publicly confirmed, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the rate of SM-affected dogs they see in registered dogs, club breeder dogs, and BYB/puppy farm dogs. I have spoken to Geoff Skerrit, Dominic Marino and Clare Rusbridge on this issue and they all agree on the point. Some have mentioned it at the last two SM health events that sadly, so few club breeders actually attended.

    On MVD: the club's own cardiologist has pointed out that the UK Club has produced NO improvement in heart results in 17 years and he expressed frustration that the club for a long time didn't even recommend the MVD protocol much less make cardiologist testing (rather than inferior level vet testing) a requirement for breeding. The KC has shown no interest in setting a minimum standard like this either. The club poor heart results sadly still parallel what cardiologists and vets say they see from puppy farm and BYB cavaliers. Unfortunately the tiny handful of club breeders who do actually follow the MVD protocol and have improved heart health over time, are not enough to pull up the overall dismal record of CLUB BREEDERS AS CONFIRMED BY THEIR OWN CLUB CARDIOLOGIST SIMON SWIFT IN A PUBLIC STATEMENT ON THE MATTER. But then again, few club breeders actually heard this, as they were all out in the lobby gossiping over coffee rather than attending his session at last year's AGM, a criticism made by their own club chairwoman and posted prominently to the homepage of their website by her at the time. Perhaps that contributes to some continuing breeder ignorance on this issue.

    Maybe breeders like Norma will attend one of these health events some day , or directly approach Simon Swift or one of the neurologists, and then ask this question of the experts actually doing the scanning and auscultations to hear the answer first hand.

    • If you are buying a puppy, of course absolutely avoid BYBs and puppy farms for all sorts of ethical and animal welfare reasons including health issues -- but also avoid club breeders who cannot show you proper heart and MRI certs, hip scores, eye tests and patella tests. Opt for a kennel club/cavalier club breeder that CAN show you they are doing relevant tests and the results you wish to see. The puppy buyer guides posted in the righthand column of the homepage all explain how to find such breeders, what to look for and what to ask. Unfortunately at this time the effort to check that a breeder actually breeds for health must all come from the puppy buyer.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  9. #29
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    Default Curious comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    Yes this is a key point -- the importance of buying registered puppies from active kennel/cavalier club breeders who can produce and discuss the relevant health certs is exactly what the puppy buyer guides say on this site and many others that are concerned about HEALTH.

    The puppy farm issue is the favourite red herring of certain club members. As neurologists have publicly confirmed, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the rate of SM-affected dogs they see in registered dogs, club breeder dogs, and BYB/puppy farm dogs. I have spoken to Geoff Skerrit, Dominic Marino and Clare Rusbridge on this issue and they all agree on the point. Some have mentioned it at the last two SM health events that sadly, so few club breeders actually attended.

    On MVD: the club's own cardiologist has pointed out that the UK Club has produced NO improvement in heart results in 17 years and he expressed frustration that the club for a long time didn't even recommend the MVD protocol much less make cardiologist testing (rather than inferior level vet testing) a requirement for breeding. The KC has shown no interest in setting a minimum standard like this either. The club poor heart results sadly still parallel what cardiologists and vets say they see from puppy farm and BYB cavaliers. Unfortunately the tiny handful of club breeders who do actually follow the MVD protocol and have improved heart health over time, are not enough to pull up the overall dismal record of CLUB BREEDERS AS CONFIRMED BY THEIR OWN CLUB CARDIOLOGIST SIMON SWIFT IN A PUBLIC STATEMENT ON THE MATTER. But then again, few club breeders actually heard this, as they were all out in the lobby gossiping over coffee rather than attending his session at last year's AGM, a criticism made by their own club chairwoman and posted prominently to the homepage of their website by her at the time. Perhaps that contributes to some continuing breeder ignorance on this issue.

    Maybe breeders like Norma will attend one of these health events some day , or directly approach Simon Swift or one of the neurologists, and then ask this question of the experts actually doing the scanning and auscultations to hear the answer first hand.

    • If you are buying a puppy, of course absolutely avoid BYBs and puppy farms for all sorts of ethical and animal welfare reasons including health issues -- but also avoid club breeders who cannot show you proper heart and MRI certs, hip scores, eye tests and patella tests. Opt for a kennel club/cavalier club breeder that CAN show you they are doing relevant tests and the results you wish to see. The puppy buyer guides posted in the righthand column of the homepage all explain how to find such breeders, what to look for and what to ask. Unfortunately at this time the effort to check that a breeder actually breeds for health must all come from the puppy buyer.

    CURIOUS COMMENT

    Thank-you Karlin for your Post.

    You have explained it so much better than I ever could about how the Cavalier Buying Public have such a big part to Play in trying to get our Cavaliers Healthier, Longer Lives.

    I am starting to wonder about the comments some Prominent Cavalier Breeders are making about the suggestion that the Cavalier Buying Public be made aware to always ask to see a Health Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder ,if they are Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock ,and this would include the Puppy Farm Breeders and BYB'S as well,do they not wan't this to happen in-case some of the Cavalier Show Breeders will also be being asked this question.

    Surely not !!!

    Is there a Quote from Shakespear that might apply here.?

    Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much.

    Bet







    This is such an important message to get across to
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  10. #30
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    Default Curious Comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    CURIOUS COMMENT

    Thank-you Karlin for your Post.

    You have explained it so much better than I ever could about how the Cavalier Buying Public have such a big part to Play in trying to get our Cavaliers Healthier, Longer Lives.

    I am starting to wonder about the comments some Prominent Cavalier Breeders are making about the suggestion that the Cavalier Buying Public be made aware to always ask to see a Health Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder ,if they are Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for their Cavalier Breeding Stock ,and this would include the Puppy Farm Breeders and BYB'S as well,do they not wan't this to happen in-case some of the Cavalier Show Breeders will also be being asked this question.

    Surely not !!!

    Is there a Quote from Shakespear that might apply here.?

    Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much.

    Bet







    This is such an important message to get across to

    Curious Comment.

    So now we know.

    Such an Arrogant Comment has just been Posted on the DW Forum ,I just had to mention it.

    We do not need the Researchers who are Researching the SM and MVD Problems in our Breed, that we are suffering from Hero Worship when we listen to those Researchers who are giving advice about those Health Problems.

    The Owners of Cavaliers with SM and MVD should be taking the advice from some of the Cavalier Breeders how to get the answer to those Two Health Problems.

    I suppose this Vociferous Cavalier Breeder will also have the Arrogance to feel she is capable of finding the Genes causing SM and MVD in our Cavalier Breed.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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