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Thread: Cavalier Health Day

  1. #11
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    Default Cavalier health day

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    CAVALIER HEALTH DAY

    SO, is the most important Information for the SM Problem in our Cavaliers, MRI SCAN Cavalier Breeding Stock.

    Bet
    CAVALIER HEALTH DAY.

    The Number of Whelps is even more Worrying than the Figure of 71 that Margaret gave , it's 85.

    71 was bad enough but to know that it's 85 who all had CM, what a Problem the Cavalier Breed has.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  2. #12
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    SO, is the most important Information for the SM Problem in our Cavaliers, MRI SCAN Cavalier Breeding Stock
    Yes Bet,
    In spite of the progress made in terms of research and understanding of the condition,there is still no alternative breeding tool available to breeders.
    The EBV or Breedmate still needs Mri scans and as recent presentations have shown,it's vital to avoid breeding from two affected parents.
    There's still a pressing need to scan older males to try and increase the availability of healthier stud dogs and to identify dogs which should not be lost to the genepool.
    So many areas of research depend on Mri scans, we mustn't lose sight of that in our hopes of a genetic test becoming available in future.
    The unfortunate drawback is the time it takes from when a puppy arrives to when it can be scanned to yield the relevant information in a breeding programme.
    There are now breeders who are scanning and using information gained to breed from parents who are not only Mri A,but without central canal dilation as well.So it's not as blunt a tool as was previously thought.
    Again there's the time required to allow the offspring to reach 2.5 years before scanning so it's a long hard road for the truly committed breeder..
    Sometimes people must feel like there are more problems than solutions!
    Sins

  3. #13
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    Default Cavalier Health Day.

    Quote Originally Posted by RodRussell View Post
    It is a lot easier to when champion points when you don't follow breeding protocols.

    To those breeders who are very successful in the show ring, but do not follow the protocols:

    Your champions are a sad joke, and you are doing more to destroy the future generations of this breed than all of the puppy farmers, because it is your dogs that become breeding stock, generation after generation.
    CAVALIER HEALTH DAY.

    As Rod has Posted ,it is the Cavalier Champions and the Cavaliers who are sucessful in the Show Ring and if their Owners are not following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,then they possibly are doing more harm to the Cavalier Breed than any other Folk in Cavaliers.

    What does it matter about the Figures being Spun by those Cavalier Owners who keep Harping on about Puppy Farmers' Cavaliers , these are not the Cavaliers who are being Shown in the Show Ring,so Really it's time for that Red Herring to stop being mentioned.

    With the Serious number of Cavalier Whelps with CM ,and I would think that most are from CKCS CLUB MEMBERS who are Breeders, it was mentioned by some-one about Light Being at the End of the Tunnel with the Cavaliers' SM Problem , must not under-stand any-thing about what this means , have just shown how Ignorant they are about this Problem.

    What a Stupid Claim to have been Made!!

    What Damage has been done to Cavaliers by this Senseless Comment, and unfortunately will be being Believed by others not knowing what this means.

    That the Cavalier Breed is in Terrible State, and no amount of Spinning ,or trying to hide the Truth about their Health Problems will alter this Fact.

    At the Moment as the Researchers said, Cavalier Breeders have to Follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations, ...

    These State that the Cavalier Brood Bitch should be a Minimum of 2.5 years of age ,with a CLEAR HEART ,and Parents with Clear Heart Certificates ,issued at 5 years or Older.

    Also those same Breeding Guideline Recommendations apply to the Cavalier Stud Dog.

    There are some Cavalier Breeders doing this, but if the Others feel that cannot do this, then as the Saying Goes.

    If They can't Stand the Heat ,then Get Out of the Kitchen,and leave the Breeding of Cavaliers to the Cavalier Breeders who truly Care about the Future of our Breed.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  4. #14
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    Default Cavalier Health Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    CAVALIER HEALTH DAY.

    As Rod has Posted ,it is the Cavalier Champions and the Cavaliers who are sucessful in the Show Ring and if their Owners are not following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,then they possibly are doing more harm to the Cavalier Breed than any other Folk in Cavaliers.

    What does it matter about the Figures being Spun by those Cavalier Owners who keep Harping on about Puppy Farmers' Cavaliers , these are not the Cavaliers who are being Shown in the Show Ring,so Really it's time for that Red Herring to stop being mentioned.

    With the Serious number of Cavalier Whelps with CM ,and I would think that most are from CKCS CLUB MEMBERS who are Breeders, it was mentioned by some-one about Light Being at the End of the Tunnel with the Cavaliers' SM Problem , must not under-stand any-thing about what this means , have just shown how Ignorant they are about this Problem.

    What a Stupid Claim to have been Made!!

    What Damage has been done to Cavaliers by this Senseless Comment, and unfortunately will be being Believed by others not knowing what this means.

    That the Cavalier Breed is in Terrible State, and no amount of Spinning ,or trying to hide the Truth about their Health Problems will alter this Fact.

    At the Moment as the Researchers said, Cavalier Breeders have to Follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations, ...

    These State that the Cavalier Brood Bitch should be a Minimum of 2.5 years of age ,with a CLEAR HEART ,and Parents with Clear Heart Certificates ,issued at 5 years or Older.

    Also those same Breeding Guideline Recommendations apply to the Cavalier Stud Dog.

    There are some Cavalier Breeders doing this, but if the Others feel that cannot do this, then as the Saying Goes.

    If They can't Stand the Heat ,then Get Out of the Kitchen,and leave the Breeding of Cavaliers to the Cavalier Breeders who truly Care about the Future of our Breed.

    Bet
    Cavalier Health Day

    As a PS to my Post ,Why cannot the CKCS CLUB even put a List on their WEB SITE of ALL Cavaliers who have been Bred by Club Member Breeders who have Bred Cavaliers from at 2.5 years of age, and are Clear of SM and MVD.

    Is the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE Scared to do this because they could be accused of Rocking The Boat?

    This would answer the Question of how many of the Cavalier Club Members who are Cavalier Breeders are following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations as was High-Lighted at the Health Day Symposium on Saturday.

    All the Cavalier Pet Owners want to know,are the Breeding Guideline Recommendations being followed by the Cavalier Breeders who are CKCS CLUB Members.

    Bet

    Is it 20% -50%- or maybe just 10 %,the CKCS Committee have really got to give an answer to this Question.
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodRussell View Post
    It is a lot easier to when champion points when you don't follow breeding protocols.

    To those breeders who are very successful in the show ring, but do not follow the protocols:

    Your champions are a sad joke, and you are doing more to destroy the future generations of this breed than all of the puppy farmers, because it is your dogs that become breeding stock, generation after generation.

    I received a regional club magazine today and in it there were a lot of statistics about the percentage of non-club-member breeders registering litters with the Kennel Club. These figures are being widely quoted by the apologists of the breeders you mention above.

    I would like to suggest that those that are so vehement that all the problems stem from puppy farmers and not club members, that top stud dogs are now MRI'd, & they are now all breeding to the protocols should go and look up Harry Frankfurt in Wikipaedia.

    I too have done a little statistics gathering in the Breed Record Supplement for the past 12 months and it makes interesting reading.

    Cavalier Club committee members using young dogs from the age of 9 months, and frequently since. Two litters to the owner/breeders in the Summer Edition, and a litter registered in the latest BRS when he was still only 18 months.

    Three dogs from one litter, one a Champion, one of the others a CC winner, all being used before they are two years old.

    One of the most eloquent defenders of club members, a Kennel Club Accredited Breeder, regional chairman and health representative, registered two litters in Spring 2010.
    One of them from her homebred 15 month dog. He was used again Autumn 2010, still under 2 years.
    The other litter was by a bought in dog aged 2 years.

    This is someone who has just written.........

    "The MAJORITY of cavaliers bred in this country are not bred by club members but BYB's and Puppy Farmers. These people will do NOTHING towards this breed having a healthy future."

    Go look up Harry Frankfurt. Those that say one thing and do another is exactly who he wrote about.

    Puppy farmers exist, they do not use health testing, but is that a reason to excuse the cavalier club members that ignore the protocols?

    How can club members, who say they will follow Codes of Ethics when they join a cavalier club, be promoted as being better breeders than a puppy farmer, if they do not do what they have signed up to?
    Even worse they tell everyone, KC, researchers and the puppy buying public that they are doing everything they should, and blame the health testing protocols when cavalier health continues to worsen.

    Are they not more despicable than BYBs when they know what a dire state the breed is in, but they choose to follow their own wishes, their own covenience, their own need to breed puppies from young improperly tested parents and sell them as top show stock for inflated prices?

    It is a fact that whereas well bred dogs often figure in puppy farm pedigrees, it is unknown for top show dogs to have unknown affixes in theirs.
    Puppy farmers are not responsible for the health problems in show bred dogs. Bad breeders that will not even give the health protocols a chance are.

    If club breeders followed the protocols.........

    1. We could say with confidence that club breeders are more responsible than puppy buyers, that their puppies cost more because they care for the parents better and only breed from them when they are older and have been checked and shown to be clear of early-onset MVD and SM.

    2. We would all know for sure if the protocols are the way to breed away from the problems.
    It is no good blaming the researchers for the lack of progress when guidelines have been ignored, and we have not provided the evidence needed to show whether they can really work.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  6. #16
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    Its was sad to hear my aunt and uncle tell me they fell in love with Ella and decided if they ever got another dog it would be a Cavalier, but seeing her health problems don't want to.

    It is a problem and to continue to blame puppy farmers can only last so long. I wish I could say this is an isolated case but it isn't. I hope Ella lives several years but eventually she will not be with me and to know that I don't know where or who to go to find a breeder who does follow everything and it makes me sad.

    To play Russian roulette with a dogs life is cruel and I hope that I will be able to one day have confidence because it be even sadder to know it was too late.

    They lost their Springer spaniel a couple of years ago and said they were not going to get another dog because they retired and travel. my aunt fell in love with ella but when my uncle was finally ready for a dog, they heard about her.

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

  7. #17
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    Default Cavalier health day

    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret C View Post
    I received a regional club magazine today and in it there were a lot of statistics about the percentage of non-club-member breeders registering litters with the Kennel Club. These figures are being widely quoted by the apologists of the breeders you mention above.

    I would like to suggest that those that are so vehement that all the problems stem from puppy farmers and not club members, that top stud dogs are now MRI'd, & they are now all breeding to the protocols should go and look up Harry Frankfurt in Wikipaedia.

    I too have done a little statistics gathering in the Breed Record Supplement for the past 12 months and it makes interesting reading.

    Cavalier Club committee members using young dogs from the age of 9 months, and frequently since. Two litters to the owner/breeders in the Summer Edition, and a litter registered in the latest BRS when he was still only 18 months.

    Three dogs from one litter, one a Champion, one of the others a CC winner, all being used before they are two years old.

    One of the most eloquent defenders of club members, a Kennel Club Accredited Breeder, regional chairman and health representative, registered two litters in Spring 2010.
    One of them from her homebred 15 month dog. He was used again Autumn 2010, still under 2 years.
    The other litter was by a bought in dog aged 2 years.

    This is someone who has just written.........

    "The MAJORITY of cavaliers bred in this country are not bred by club members but BYB's and Puppy Farmers. These people will do NOTHING towards this breed having a healthy future."

    Go look up Harry Frankfurt. Those that say one thing and do another is exactly who he wrote about.

    Puppy farmers exist, they do not use health testing, but is that a reason to excuse the cavalier club members that ignore the protocols?

    How can club members, who say they will follow Codes of Ethics when they join a cavalier club, be promoted as being better breeders than a puppy farmer, if they do not do what they have signed up to?
    Even worse they tell everyone, KC, researchers and the puppy buying public that they are doing everything they should, and blame the health testing protocols when cavalier health continues to worsen.

    Are they not more despicable than BYBs when they know what a dire state the breed is in, but they choose to follow their own wishes, their own covenience, their own need to breed puppies from young improperly tested parents and sell them as top show stock for inflated prices?

    It is a fact that whereas well bred dogs often figure in puppy farm pedigrees, it is unknown for top show dogs to have unknown affixes in theirs.
    Puppy farmers are not responsible for the health problems in show bred dogs. Bad breeders that will not even give the health protocols a chance are.

    If club breeders followed the protocols.........

    1. We could say with confidence that club breeders are more responsible than puppy buyers, that their puppies cost more because they care for the parents better and only breed from them when they are older and have been checked and shown to be clear of early-onset MVD and SM.

    2. We would all know for sure if the protocols are the way to breed away from the problems.
    It is no good blaming the researchers for the lack of progress when guidelines have been ignored, and we have not provided the evidence needed to show whether they can really work.
    Cavalier Health Day

    What is it with some Cavalier Breeders that they have to Resort to a PR Exercise when-ever the Health Problems in our Cavaliers are Mentioned.

    Did they not try to Collect 8,000 after the PDE TV Program to counter-act the Publicity that was given to the SM and MVD Problems in Cavaliers.

    Now the same Vociferious Cavalier Breeders have moved onto the Puppy Farmers and BYB's who are Breeding Cavaliers.

    This is what I just what I cannot understand , are those Cavalier Breeders Blaming the Puppy Farmers for the Cavaliers' SM and MVD Problems, or just giving the Statistics about how many Cavaliers are not being Bred by the Breeders in the Cavalier Club.

    They should make up their Mind.

    Margaret has given some Interesting Information about what is happening by Cavalier Breeders who are Members of the Cavalier Club ,and holding a Position in the Club.

    The Blame must lie with those Cavalier Breeders in the CKCS CLUB who are not following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations for the SM and MVD Problems.

    They have got the Cavaliers into the Mess they are in to-day ,so they must ,if there are to be any Cavaliers around in a few years ,do some-thing about giving Cavaliers the chance to survive, instead of not accepting the Blame about the Disasterous Health Troubles of SM and MVD in Cavaliers To-day.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    What is it with some Cavalier Breeders that they have to Resort to a PR Exercise when-ever the Health Problems in our Cavaliers are Mentioned. ...
    It is not just the breeders. Worse still is that cavalier clubs try to deflect the facts about the severity of disorders like mitral valve disease. This is what the American CKCS Club publishes on its websites as its introduction to its article about MVD:

    Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are generally healthy, sturdy, small dogs. However, as with many other breeds, there are health concerns. The number one health concern is a form of degenerative valve disease called Mitral Valve Disease (MVD). Please take time to review this health summary.

    Cavalier Clubs throughout the world are active in fighting diseases and disorders in this beloved breed by providing health clinics, funding breed specific research and delivering breed education programs. The findings from surveys performed by the late George A. Padgett, DVM, Veterinary Pathologist & Professor Emeritus at the College of Veterinary Medicine of Michigan State University and author of Control of Canine Genetic Diseases, indicate that mixed-breed dogs have more genetic diseases than purebred dogs. There are 215 known diseases in mixed-breed dogs, with 71 percent of them having defective genes. The idea that a mixed-breed dog is likely to have fewer genetic diseases than a purebred is a misconception.
    http://ackcscharitabletrust.org/health/hearts.html

    Got any clue from that intro as to how serious this disorder might be? Instead of informing its members and the rest of the AKC breeders about MVD, we find an attack on mixed breeds. And, keep in mind, this club refuses to tell its members anything about the MVD breeding protocol. As far as it is concerned, the protocol does not exist.
    Rod Russell

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