• If you're a past member of the board, but can't recall your password any more, you don't need to set up a new account (unless you wish to). As long as you recall your old login name, you can log in with that user name then select 'forgot password' and the board will email you at your registration email, to let you reset your password.

Can the cavalier breed be saved?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi
Bought the issue of Dogs Today magazine, just to read the article. Must I say I shed a few tears. How can people even think a tiny thought or even say.. "Is It time to give up on the Cavalier" (contents)
This is totally heart-breaking for all of us here, no matter how much discussion and thought, I feel horrible knowing I cannot help - We honestly need a miracle!! :(:(
 
Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

I think that is really wishful thinking.


I have just written a new blog................

"Is the BVA/KC MRI Scheme an Official Secret?"


CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED ?

Just read your Blog Margaret, it really gets to the Nitty Gritty about what I previously Posted about how the BREED CAVALIER MAFIA is trying to put a Stop to the Cavalier Breed having the Chance of a Healthier Future, even to having a Future at all.

Is there Any Way, we Folk who are the Lovers of Cavaliers can Stop them from doing any more Damage to the Cavalier Breed .

Would it not be Possible to Send a Petition to the Kennel Club Showing what is Happening in the Cavalier World here in Britain at the Moment?

I am sure the Kennel Club will be interested to know how their Plans for their EBV Scheme are being Thwarted by a Certain Few in the CKCS CLUB'S COMMITTEES.

If even not a Petition ,a Letter telling the Kennel Club about how Many Lovers of the Cavalier Breed are Distressed about how some Prominant Cavalier Club Members are trying to Hold Back the the Advancement of the Research into the Health Problems in our Cavaliers.

Many of us who Love the Cavalier Breed are not UK CKCS CLUB MEMBERS , but why should we be Dictated to by a Few CKCS CLUB MEMBERS who seem to be not interested in the Cavaliers' Health Problems,including not Following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations.

Is not time our Voices were being Heard?

Bet
 
Can't they just be ignored and forgotten about? :?

It has already been said they are such a small group of people after all who are specialist breeders for the show ring.
It's like having a go at the top horse racing stables, and blaming all the diseases of all horses on them - no ordinary person would get the chance to buy a foal from any of those stables so does anyone care what they do? (as long as cruelty isn't involved)

At the end of the day most of us don't buy puppies from these people anyway as they trade amongst themselves. It's breeders in general that supply the pet market. that need to clean up their act. Anyway that is how I see it.#
 
Can't they just be ignored and forgotten about? :?

It has already been said they are such a small group of people after all who are specialist breeders for the show ring.
It's like having a go at the top horse racing stables, and blaming all the diseases of all horses on them - no ordinary person would get the chance to buy a foal from any of those stables so does anyone care what they do? (as long as cruelty isn't involved)

At the end of the day most of us don't buy puppies from these people anyway as they trade amongst themselves. It's breeders in general that supply the pet market. that need to clean up their act. Anyway that is how I see it.#

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED ?

Unfortunately it's Those Cavalier Folk ,the Cavalier Breed Mafia , who are trying to Stop the Advance of the Research for the Cavalier Breed ,this is what is causing the Problem at the Moment,and doing untold Damage to our Cavaliers.

Bet
 
Hi
Bought the issue of Dogs Today magazine, just to read the article. Must I say I shed a few tears. How can people even think a tiny thought or even say.. "Is It time to give up on the Cavalier" (contents)
This is totally heart-breaking for all of us here, no matter how much discussion and thought, I feel horrible knowing I cannot help - We honestly need a miracle!! :(:(

For those of us without access to the magazine, could you mention the points raised in the article?
 
Can't they just be ignored and forgotten about? :?

It has already been said they are such a small group of people after all who are specialist breeders for the show ring.
It's like having a go at the top horse racing stables, and blaming all the diseases of all horses on them - no ordinary person would get the chance to buy a foal from any of those stables so does anyone care what they do? (as long as cruelty isn't involved)

At the end of the day most of us don't buy puppies from these people anyway as they trade amongst themselves. It's breeders in general that supply the pet market. that need to clean up their act. Anyway that is how I see it.#

I understand what you are saying, but unfortunately the influence of the small band of top breeders /exhibitors that have no intention of letting the health protocols or health schemes affect their breeding programme is wide spread.
They do not just trade among themselves, the majority of the puppies they breed will be sold to ordinary people, and their stud dog services are routinely used by the "breeders in general" that go on to supply the pet market.

A top winning puppy that, it now appears, has sired NINE litters before he is one year old, has been used by a few owners with no kennel names. They may have well bred bitches but their owners are not one of that specialist group of show breeders you are writing about, and the ordinary pet owner will buy those puppies.

Most of the puppy farm dogs will have well known kennel names at the back of them. Many of the BYBs have Champion dogs in their pedigrees. It is inevitable in the UK where only a very few breeders have spay/neuter contracts.
The reverse does not happen, dogs of unknown non-show lines do not usually get incorporated into top lines. The traffic is one way, and continuous.

Breeding to unscanned dogs does involve cruelty, both to any bitch that has symptomatic SM that is being ignored or discounted, and to the puppies that are being born with an increased chance of inheriting the condition at a young age.
It is cruel to the families that buy a pet that suffers.

These breeders also have influence because the Kennel Club bends over backwards to give it to them, and while the KC is kowtowing to the breed clubs and assuring the world that there is no problem, and no need to tighten up on their registered breeders, there is no chance of tightening the regulations on puppy farmers. Reform has to come from the top.

After all what difference is there between these breeders and puppy farmers when none of them health test their dogs? Their dogs live in sheds. Their dogs are not exercised ( unless they are current show dogs ) Their dogs are bred from as puppies, their bitches mated when only just over one year old & some of them breed their bitches twice in a year.

The only difference is they go to shows.
 
Verbal bullying

I would like to say to one of our American members here how disgusted I am at the vulgar & crude language used by a few well known breeders to divert another ongoing discussion on the BVA/KC MRI scheme.

On the forum concerned verbal bullying is a tactic that is often used when there are threads that make uncomfortable reading for these people.

Using rhyming slang does not make the language any less offensive

I know the gentleman targeted is well able to defend himself, but I am ashamed to see that that one of these unpleasant persons is a committee member of the UK Cavalier King Charles Club.

She does the Cavalier Club no credit at all.
 
I would like to say to one of our American members here how disgusted I am at the vulgar & crude language used by a few well known breeders to divert another ongoing discussion on the BVA/KC MRI scheme.

On the forum concerned verbal bullying is a tactic that is often used when there are threads that make uncomfortable reading for these people.

Using rhyming slang does not make the language any less offensive

I know the gentleman targeted is well able to defend himself, but I am ashamed to see that that one of these unpleasant persons is a committee member of the UK Cavalier King Charles Club.

She does the Cavalier Club no credit at all.

Margaret, when you give certain people enough rope, they will use it to hang themselves. Now perhaps intoxicating beverages were involved here, but potential cavalier puppy buyers, upon reading such posts, should ask themselves:
Should I consider buying a puppy from such a breeder?
 
I have removed a couple of posts from this thread as it was turning into a slanging match - which is not the purpose of this forum.

We prefer that discussions on other forums are left there - this thread was left to run for a bit as some interesting points were being raised, but we will not allow personal comments.
 
Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

I have removed a couple of posts from this thread as it was turning into a slanging match - which is not the purpose of this forum.

We prefer that discussions on other forums are left there - this thread was left to run for a bit as some interesting points were being raised, but we will not allow personal comments.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Could I just mention I have Contacted Professor J.Sampson ,Geneticist at the Kennel Club,my Concern about how a Few Influential Cavalier Folk seem to be Trying to Thwart the Progress of the EBV Scheme in our Cavalier Breed.

That it is not just Members of the Cavalier Club who are involved with the Health Problems of our Cavalier Breed ,that there Many ,Many Cavalier Owners who have so much Heart Ache because of seeing our Cavaliers Suffer and Die at Young Ages from the SM and MVD Problems Afflicting our Cherished Cavaliers.

That we other Cavalier Owners who Love Cavaliers are depending on the Research and Information from the EBV Scheme to be a Chance of giving our Cavaliers Healthier ,Longer Lives,why should it be down to just Few Cavalier Folk stopping this.

Bet
 
I know the gentleman targeted is well able to defend himself, but I am ashamed to see that that one of these unpleasant persons is a committee member of the UK Cavalier King Charles Club.

Is this not a violation of the club code of ethics? Most certainly it must be seriously questionable behaviour from a national committee member; and in most clubs of whatever type, it would be a resignable offense for a committee member to attack a club member publically, would it not? :rolleyes:

On the other hand, as I have long said (in line with what Rod says above): the true thoughts and personalities of so many of these people emerge during such public debates -- many present one public face on forums (generally the ones with lots of pet owners/prospective puppy buyers...) but can show a very different side on such forums. A true indication of what they think, most often kept for private communications (occasionally been sent on to me, so I've seen the evidence... and kept it), and for breeder-ony private forums where people also pass along their comments from time to time, and on which some of us are members despite attempts to purge suspects icon_whistling -- so many of us know what they think and say when they think their thoughts are private.

It is nonetheless very helpful for general debate on the effectiveness of breed clubs or breeders to take any responsible decisions on behalf of the breed, to have such true colours displayed. (y) Very handy for campaigners to send on to MPs, advisory bodies in the UK, etc.

I encourage people to visit other forums and email lists to get a sense of what some of these people say in one location as opposed to another. It may come as a surprise.

At the same time, while I am fine with general points that might be raised elsewhere being discussed and considered here -- in line with what Nicki has posted, I do not want personal differences or arguments with individuals elsewhere, to be carried over here.
 
Hello Cavalierfriends,

I'm from Belgium and I've seen that program 'Einde van de rashond' on Nederland2 (dutch television). I knew about the health-problems but hope that something can be done to save my favo Cavalier. There is also a petition > http://www.sophia-vereeniging.nl/l/RAS2010/1/onderteken.htmla now in the Netherlands at Mr Bleker with the question that breeders must be obligated to breed on health of the dog instead of beauty. I also hear or read often that the head of the Cavalier is too small for the brains (syringomyelia) but that the head and also the nose were longer around the years 70 as you can see on > http://dierenrecht.org/fileadmin/do...entarisatie_van_de_erfelijke_aandoeningen.pdf so is it maybe possible to mix the Cavalier with another breed so that they look like the Spaniels of King Charles II > http://www.freewebs.com/europeheart/Old picture of Cav. 2.jpg

So I hope you can understand my English because my language is dutch. Greetings from Belgium :)
 
Hello Cavalierfriends,

I'm from Belgium and I've seen that program 'Einde van de rashond' on Nederland2 (dutch television). I knew about the health-problems but hope that something can be done to save my favo Cavalier. There is also a petition > http://www.sophia-vereeniging.nl/l/RAS2010/1/onderteken.htmla now in the Netherlands at Mr Bleker with the question that breeders must be obligated to breed on health of the dog instead of beauty. I also hear or read often that the head of the Cavalier is too small for the brains (syringomyelia) but that the head and also the nose were longer around the years 70 as you can see on > http://dierenrecht.org/fileadmin/do...entarisatie_van_de_erfelijke_aandoeningen.pdf so is it maybe possible to mix the Cavalier with another breed so that they look like the Spaniels of King Charles II > http://www.freewebs.com/europeheart/Old picture of Cav. 2.jpg

So I hope you can understand my English because my language is dutch. Greetings from Belgium :)

Your English is really good.

We all love our cavaliers and hope that breeders will work together to make them healthier.

I know that there has been a few wonderful breeders in your Country breeding to the cavalier SM guidelines & improving their results over the years. Perhaps there are just not enough of them?

I had heard about the petition, it is an extreme measure, but perhaps in the end something like that may be needed ? If breeders will not stop breeding from sick dogs by themselves, then perhaps we need laws that can force them to stop.

It has not been proved that it is the change in the head and nose shape that has caused SM in cavaliers. it may not be connected.

It may, I suppose, become necessary to bring in new blood from another breed, if it becomes obvious that there are not enough dogs without SM to breed away from the condition, but we would need expert genetic advice before we try to do that.

For an example of what happens in other breeds I suggest readers here take a look at the poor puppy on................
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/

 
There are some great Dutch cavalier breeders, who have been generous and supportive of research, providing some really critical breeding and MRI information. :D

Outcrossing to another breed may eventually be needed but would need to be part of a careful plan supported by the best genetic advice. There is no evidence that simply crossing cavaliers with other breeds lessens the chance of some of the serious health conditions. :( For example, syringomyelia has shown up in several cavalier crossbreeds, and any cross can be susceptible to the illnesses that might be genetic traits in the breeds of either parent. So it's really important that people not be taken in by breeders who sell expensive crossbreeds as an answer to health problems.
 
...Outcrossing to another breed may eventually be needed but would need to be part of a careful plan supported by the best genetic advice. There is no evidence that simply crossing cavaliers with other breeds lessens the chance of some of the serious health conditions. ...

So true. In the AKC right now, the parent club for Dalamatians are being asked to consent to the cross-breeding with a non-AKC bloodline of 99.97% purebred Dals which do not have the mutated gene causing high levels of uric acid, (leading to uric acid sludge and stones in their bladders), which 100% of AKC-registered Dals have. This "low uric acid (LUA)" bloodline was created from one cross-breeding in 1973 of a Dal and a pointer, and the current breedable descendants are the twelfth generation.

I have a hunch that AKC's board will mandate allowing the cross-breeding, even if, next June, the parent club members vote the proposal down. But, there is 37 years of breeding, testing, and genetic research behind this LUA Dalamatian line. In the UK, the Kennel Club already has approved the cross-breeding with this line, I think.

As for the cavalier, we have nothing like the 37 years of vetting that has gone into this Dalmatian line. Any cavalier cross-breeding right now would be a crap shoot. I think the best option is to forget cross breeding and just experiment with crossing other toy breeds, like the Papillon, to re-create "the look" and perhaps the temperament, and leave actual CKCS bloodlines out of the mix for several generations.
 
Any cavalier cross-breeding right now would be a crap shoot. I think the best option is to forget cross breeding and just experiment with crossing other toy breeds, like the Papillon, to re-create "the look" and perhaps the temperament, and leave actual CKCS bloodlines out of the mix for several generations.

Yes maybe a good option Rodrussel.
 
Yes maybe a good option Rodrussel.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED ?

In case any of you Missed my Post about the Lady who is a Dedicated Cavalier Owner ,has a Cavalier who has had Health Tests ,but still Developed Problems ,and because of the Heath Problems Afflicting our Cavaliers ,wondered if the Things she, and most Cavalier Lovers love about the Breed could be Retained about the Breed without the Heath Issues.

She has Consulted Cavalier Breeders ,Genetic Experts and Vets and has found out that this could be done.

She is now going ahead with this Long Term Project of Out -Crossing .

She knows that there is the Possibility of Throwing up Hidden or Unknown Health problems with Out Crossing ,but she is going to be Meticulous in Keeping Health Records .

What other way can the Cavaliers go now, they have Reached the End of the Road because of their Health Problems, their MVD Problem can't be Solved because there are now so many Cavalier Carriers around with MVD Genes ,their SM Problem is heading in the same Direction, OK, we who Really Love Cavaliers ,might not in the Future have a 4Legged Friend who looks like a Cavalier ,maube more like the Original Toy Spaniel , but for sure they probably will have a better Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives than what the Cavaliers of To-Day have.

THis must be what we All Want.

Bet
 
their MVD Problem can't be Solved because there are now so many Cavalier Carriers around with MVD Genes ,their SM Problem is heading in the same Direction,

But the experts such as Simon Swift and Clare Rusbridge are still saying that MVD could be bred out and SM brought under control within 3 or 4 generations if breeders would keep the breeding protocols. And some responsible breeders are showing that it can be done. The problem isn't with the Cavaliers but with the humans who breed them. An outcross may (or may not) make things better for the dogs, but will it change human nature?

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

But the experts such as Simon Swift and Clare Rusbridge are still saying that MVD could be bred out and SM brought under control within 3 or 4 generations if breeders would keep the breeding protocols. And some responsible breeders are showing that it can be done. The problem isn't with the Cavaliers but with the humans who breed them. An outcross may make things better for the dogs, but will it change human nature?

Kate, Oliver and Aled

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?


Is Not the Priority to lessen the Suffering of our Cherished Cavaliers, if Out -Crossing will do this ,then I am sure there will be many Heart -Broken Cavalier Owners who will want this .

Bet
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top