-
If you're a past member of the board, but can't recall your password any more, you don't need to set up a new account (unless you wish to). As long as you recall your old login name, you can log in with that user name then select 'forgot password' and the board will email you at your registration email, to let you reset your password.
Well the rescues are here....
- Thread starter Reptigirl
- Start date
On the subject of insurance, read all of the fine print on the company website and/or in the documents to see what their particular rules are. Here is what I did for the tiny girl (described in another thread) that I adopted last April:
Lissie was 1-3 years old when adopted off the street, and of course I had no medical history. I took her to my vet the day after she arrived and had an initial examination done which included a thorough physical exam (including auscultation) along with full blood chemistry profile and urinalysis. The bloodwork and UA results were normal, and she had no heart murmur. The vet could find no other problem other than luxated patella (about grade 1) in both knees. The blood chemistry testing was important to me because I wanted to rule out any underlying disease (such as kidney or liver) that might explain her very small size; however, that was not necessarily a requirement from the insurance company. I could have just gotten the initial examination done and that would have satisfied the requirement, as long as my vet didn't find some symptom that would cause her to recommend blood chemistry.
I phoned the insurance company that I selected (PetPlan) and enrolled her, and I told them her history (or lack of) and the results of her initial exam and testing. There was only a very short waiting period - it may have only been 24 or 48 hours. The only pre-existing condition for her was the luxated patellae. If I make a claim in the future, they will go back and ask for copies of all of the vet records including that initial exam which had to take place within the previous year of date of enrollment. Now they don't tell you all of this automatically when you enroll a dog - you must either read all of the fine print or ask questions directly of a customer service rep when you enroll a dog.
The rules for PetPlan are that the dog must have been examined by a vet in the previous year before enrollment. If you make a claim, the company will contact the vet to make sure this exam/visit is on record. If there is no record of the initial exam (especially for an adult dog), ANYTHING wrong will be considered a pre-existing condition since you have no vet records on file. So, the key is that the dog must have a record of a vet exam within the previous year. Other companies probably have some similar type of rule, but the point is that you have to have some history on the dog before a claim will be paid. You might want to contact the previous owner and see if there are vet records on file somewhere that the insurance company can access in the event you make any claims.
I'm probably going to drop Lissie's insurance upon renewal next Spring or I might keep it for one more year. My experience with my dogs is that it is almost always cheaper in the long run to be self-insured. I was just nervous in this case since Lissie was a young dog with absolutely no history, not even from a previous owner.
Pat
Lissie was 1-3 years old when adopted off the street, and of course I had no medical history. I took her to my vet the day after she arrived and had an initial examination done which included a thorough physical exam (including auscultation) along with full blood chemistry profile and urinalysis. The bloodwork and UA results were normal, and she had no heart murmur. The vet could find no other problem other than luxated patella (about grade 1) in both knees. The blood chemistry testing was important to me because I wanted to rule out any underlying disease (such as kidney or liver) that might explain her very small size; however, that was not necessarily a requirement from the insurance company. I could have just gotten the initial examination done and that would have satisfied the requirement, as long as my vet didn't find some symptom that would cause her to recommend blood chemistry.
I phoned the insurance company that I selected (PetPlan) and enrolled her, and I told them her history (or lack of) and the results of her initial exam and testing. There was only a very short waiting period - it may have only been 24 or 48 hours. The only pre-existing condition for her was the luxated patellae. If I make a claim in the future, they will go back and ask for copies of all of the vet records including that initial exam which had to take place within the previous year of date of enrollment. Now they don't tell you all of this automatically when you enroll a dog - you must either read all of the fine print or ask questions directly of a customer service rep when you enroll a dog.
The rules for PetPlan are that the dog must have been examined by a vet in the previous year before enrollment. If you make a claim, the company will contact the vet to make sure this exam/visit is on record. If there is no record of the initial exam (especially for an adult dog), ANYTHING wrong will be considered a pre-existing condition since you have no vet records on file. So, the key is that the dog must have a record of a vet exam within the previous year. Other companies probably have some similar type of rule, but the point is that you have to have some history on the dog before a claim will be paid. You might want to contact the previous owner and see if there are vet records on file somewhere that the insurance company can access in the event you make any claims.
I'm probably going to drop Lissie's insurance upon renewal next Spring or I might keep it for one more year. My experience with my dogs is that it is almost always cheaper in the long run to be self-insured. I was just nervous in this case since Lissie was a young dog with absolutely no history, not even from a previous owner.
Pat
Pat, thank you for this very important point!!!
This is a critical clarification and I am sure holds for other insurance companies -- they would have no viable business model if they took on a dog with no medical background and then insure anything that shows up. I agree that it makes sense for owners to make sure they ARE covered for as much as possible -- eg get a thorough initial exam by one's vet -- or why bother with insurance? Small print is often overooked (my insurance premium now arrives on a DVD!!! Evidence of how huge and complicated the small print is...
).If cost of covering potential health problems is a real issue, I'd really suggest contacting Lucky Star to take on one or both dogs as they will help sort the medical costs and rehome. Taking on rescues can be really challenging financially -- and there's a point at which anyone involved needs to make an honest appraisal about what they can manage. It isn't fair to dogs or people to go in over one's head. If there's already one dog at home with a serious and potentially costly health issue, that needs to be weighed against the ability to take on another dog or two, and that in turn set against what happens if one or both end up with the same issues as their offspring, or other health problems?
I also agree that for many people, saving the cost of premiums into a personal savings account for the dogs for anything that comes up, may well work out cheaper than insurance if you have multiple dogs. I think insurance makes sense if you have one or two dogs and/or also want the security of having anything covered; or to make sure you can cover something at the time you need it done. I have found the deductible (amount you need to pay before cover kicks in) has made insurance fairly meaningless for all but one of my gang. I dropped insurance for my cats years ago and have never had a serious problem with them -- if I'd insured them all, I'd have paid out over to €5000 just for the cats! Nothing they have needed done would have been claimable, as is. But it is a gamble too -- it may be that one cat will need serious care that costs €5k and I'd be even. If it greatly exceeds that cost, or two of them have serious and costly problems, then I am out of pocket. But the statistical likelihood is that they won't.
Reptigirl
Well-known member
When I enrolled the dogs into the insurance I told them both dogs came to me as rescues and I had no idea of any medical history. The only information I was provided with was the breeder who had self vaccinated them. They told me no records were needed as they have many people who find dogs off the streets and then enroll them. They told me that the only things that would be considered "pre-exiting" would be anything that happens in the waiting period OR anything that the vet notes as existing prior to the end of the waiting period. There are several exclusions under the policy as teeth extractions, dental care, conditions due to breeding..etc... will follow up on this more as we are on our way out the door...
I would check on this. You cannot leave the dogs very long without a vet visit and I would be surprised if any insurance company would cover dogs 'blind' like this (there tend to be lots of exceptions...). Mine required a vet once-over OR would consider problems pre-existing. They can also dispute claims as being obviously pre-existig conditions -- eg a strong heart murmur, SM, etc picked up on early vet visits as these are progressive conditions. In addition very few insurance plans actually cover genetic conditions like MVD and SM. Only PetPlan and one or two others in the US. I would not even consider insurance from a company that doesn't take genetic conditions.
I do not advise anyone to do anything which could be perceived as fraudulent. It is better to do things by the book -- or if that brings financial concerns, to place rescues with an organisation that can shoulder any unexpected costs that cannot be covered. These are tough decisions. :flwr:
I do not advise anyone to do anything which could be perceived as fraudulent. It is better to do things by the book -- or if that brings financial concerns, to place rescues with an organisation that can shoulder any unexpected costs that cannot be covered. These are tough decisions. :flwr:
As I said, I just went through this - adopted an adult dog off the street obviously with no medical records and insured her two days later with PetPlan. I will tell you that I had to question VERY closely to get the info about the need for the initial vet visit to establish condition of dog upon adoption IF I were to expect an early claim for an illness to be covered. The customer service rep did not want to tell me this until I pressed him about what the process was if I made an early claim. As Karlin said, a lot depends upon the nature of the claim. If it was an accident, for example, there would likely be no problem. If it was a dog with a grade III murmur with a claim made within months (for example) of new ownership, it would clearly be something that was pre-existing and I feel certain that the claim would be denied.
I had the choice of turning Lissie over to rescue or keeping her. I took her to the vet the next day after she arrived and had a very thorough physical exam done plus full blood chemistry and urinalysis. One reason I did that was to help me make the decision about whether or not I would keep her or turn her over to rescue. I wanted to know what initial costs I would likely incur. I'm not saying that I would have turned her over to rescue had I discovered a serious problem, but I am a big believer in making decisions with full knowledge of all relevant facts. This is another reason that I think rescue groups should always do a thorough work-up with all dogs before placement so that they can give full disclosure to adopting families. If I had done a private placement for Lissie (without going through a rescue group), I would still have done a full workup before placing her.
Many vets give discounts for rescues. My own vet does not charge any fee for an initial evaluation of a dog coming into rescue. The blood chemistry charge was only $130, and I had to do that anyway within a few months of her being spayed, so that cost was going to happen regardless. I now feel very confident that any problem that may come up (other than patellae) will be covered as I have very carefully established a health baseline for Lissie.
Eight months after adopting her, I am feeling optimistic about her future. There have been no symptoms of SM - even subtle. Any dog that roughhouses and wrestles as many hours a day as she does with "her" kitty I think is unlikely to be dealing presently with any kind of chronic pain issues. I've never seen her scratch, face rub, bunny hop, scoot, or exhibit any of the other potential signs. She has had follow up visits with the vet and was spayed and had a dental three months after she arrived. I don't have a crystal ball to see years into the future and she is after all still a young dog, but she appears to be a pretty healthy Cavalier - and this is why I will likely drop her insurance at renewal next year. I've already dropped the insurance for my 8 year old when his premium went up 30% last month at renewal. He is heart clear, symptomless for SM, and I never made an insurance claim for him. No point in throwing good money after bad, esp. after I calculated what I would pay out in premiums for him for the next 6 years - almost $10,000. (Sorry about the digression, but I am rather skeptical about the merits of pet insurance at the moment.)
Pat
I had the choice of turning Lissie over to rescue or keeping her. I took her to the vet the next day after she arrived and had a very thorough physical exam done plus full blood chemistry and urinalysis. One reason I did that was to help me make the decision about whether or not I would keep her or turn her over to rescue. I wanted to know what initial costs I would likely incur. I'm not saying that I would have turned her over to rescue had I discovered a serious problem, but I am a big believer in making decisions with full knowledge of all relevant facts. This is another reason that I think rescue groups should always do a thorough work-up with all dogs before placement so that they can give full disclosure to adopting families. If I had done a private placement for Lissie (without going through a rescue group), I would still have done a full workup before placing her.
Many vets give discounts for rescues. My own vet does not charge any fee for an initial evaluation of a dog coming into rescue. The blood chemistry charge was only $130, and I had to do that anyway within a few months of her being spayed, so that cost was going to happen regardless. I now feel very confident that any problem that may come up (other than patellae) will be covered as I have very carefully established a health baseline for Lissie.
Eight months after adopting her, I am feeling optimistic about her future. There have been no symptoms of SM - even subtle. Any dog that roughhouses and wrestles as many hours a day as she does with "her" kitty I think is unlikely to be dealing presently with any kind of chronic pain issues. I've never seen her scratch, face rub, bunny hop, scoot, or exhibit any of the other potential signs. She has had follow up visits with the vet and was spayed and had a dental three months after she arrived. I don't have a crystal ball to see years into the future and she is after all still a young dog, but she appears to be a pretty healthy Cavalier - and this is why I will likely drop her insurance at renewal next year. I've already dropped the insurance for my 8 year old when his premium went up 30% last month at renewal. He is heart clear, symptomless for SM, and I never made an insurance claim for him. No point in throwing good money after bad, esp. after I calculated what I would pay out in premiums for him for the next 6 years - almost $10,000. (Sorry about the digression, but I am rather skeptical about the merits of pet insurance at the moment.)
Pat
lovecavaliers
Well-known member
I have pet insurance through Trupanion which is great, but required a vet exam within the 30 day wait period. Def. double/triple check with your company. I know how expensive it can be, I would be in debt with all of Jack's expenses if it werent for the insurance. I hope it works out for you and those two cuties. They really do look great!
anniemac
Well-known member
They are so cute and You have done such a great job! No wonder you are tired
I asked my insurance teacher in a class and he said pet insurance is the same as a Christmas fund. I think it depends on what the plan is. Give it time because there is a wait period. Vets will work with rescues but of long term, then it should be something to think about.
I disagree with my teacher b/c I wish I had pet plan instead of my insurance that does not cover SM. I advise anyone getting a Cavalier to get insurance that covers inheritary conditions.
Pet plan (unlike mine) is great for when a problem arises. My friends had MRI and surgery help with pet plan. Me nada and I wish I got it before. Mine does more wellness and if accidents happen.
Anyway, be careful because no matter what, they will look into things. Seemed really easy when I switched from VPI to pet plan for a day. Cancelled same day and a day later Ella got bit by dog. Glad for that.
If you are trying to help with vet bills to take care of these beauties then personally it would be better to not go pet insurance especially if rehoming.
I can't believe what all good You have done and getting them out is huge. Send those pictures because that is terrible.
You have done great work so far and more than anyone could do. Bless you. You have done the hardest most grateful thing for them and if financially, emotionally hard, there are rescue groups like lucky star that would be able to help (I hope)
Thank you for giving these two a better life. So sad to look at the state they were in
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
I asked my insurance teacher in a class and he said pet insurance is the same as a Christmas fund. I think it depends on what the plan is. Give it time because there is a wait period. Vets will work with rescues but of long term, then it should be something to think about.
I disagree with my teacher b/c I wish I had pet plan instead of my insurance that does not cover SM. I advise anyone getting a Cavalier to get insurance that covers inheritary conditions.
Pet plan (unlike mine) is great for when a problem arises. My friends had MRI and surgery help with pet plan. Me nada and I wish I got it before. Mine does more wellness and if accidents happen.
Anyway, be careful because no matter what, they will look into things. Seemed really easy when I switched from VPI to pet plan for a day. Cancelled same day and a day later Ella got bit by dog. Glad for that.
If you are trying to help with vet bills to take care of these beauties then personally it would be better to not go pet insurance especially if rehoming.
I can't believe what all good You have done and getting them out is huge. Send those pictures because that is terrible.
You have done great work so far and more than anyone could do. Bless you. You have done the hardest most grateful thing for them and if financially, emotionally hard, there are rescue groups like lucky star that would be able to help (I hope)
Thank you for giving these two a better life. So sad to look at the state they were in
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Holly
Well-known member
Cute dogs! So glad they are out of that miserable situation.
We have taken in a couple of dogs with that flaky skin and sparse hair like the girl's and it ended up being a Staph infection. You may want the vet to check on that. It was treated with antibiotics and a medicated shampoo from the vet.
We have taken in a couple of dogs with that flaky skin and sparse hair like the girl's and it ended up being a Staph infection. You may want the vet to check on that. It was treated with antibiotics and a medicated shampoo from the vet.
Reptigirl
Well-known member
Just wanted to post an update:
Both dogs are doing WONDERFUL!!!!
The girl:
She is still shy and spends a lot of time at the back of the crate.. she is coming around though. She was missing fur all over her back and hind legs BUT I'm very proud to say she has fuzz EVERYWHERE she was missing fur!!!! Going to take a long time for her to look like a Cavalier and not a rat terrier but its a start! She also no longer has any dandruff!
Her ears are no longer red or greasy. I'm still watching them though. I Trimmed the mats away from her inner ear so its gets some air plus I'm using ear treatment on it.
She also seems to be at a better weight already. Probably can still add a little more but overall a much better weight!
I have been using a little bit of a plague remover for dogs in the water bowl. Tonight I noticed her teeth look a lot better. She has started to chew a little on edible bones and favors dry dog food. It looks like she only needs 1 or 2 teeth pulled. (Lucky Girl)
Her main bad habit is she will pee on any blankets outside of the kennel. Which is then followed by the male peeing on top of it. As long as keep blankets up outside the kennel she does not potty anywhere on the tile floor.
The boy:
Oh, he is SUCH a love! He has the SWEETEST personality! He reminds me a lot of Flash. I truly believe he was someone's pet before. He let me bath him, blow dry him and he sat on the floor without anyone holding him to let me trim all of his nails. He always has a look of true happiness on his face! If I have to place him he will be a Hard one to let go. I'm already attached to him.
His coat has softened up so much. He really feels like a cavalier now. He still has a lot of yellow stains on his leg feathers, belly and tail that wont come out but that is trivial. His ears looked normal after just 2 treatments of ear drops. He is eating well and the belly band that fit him when he came here is gonna be too tight here soon. (Gotta start sewing more ASAP as that is the biggest one I have.) He still needs another pound or two at LEAST to be near an ideal weight. His ribs still stick out but not as bad.
His bad habits... He barks at cats. Every time he so much as SEES a cat from across the room he goes off. I'm sure this is going to take a LOT of reconditioning if it is possible at all. He occasionally will mark if I leave the belly band off but he is overall pretty good. I have been using it a LOT less then when I first brought him home. He mainly will only pee if the female pees first.
Also there barking has almost stopped. They only time they bark now is if the male sees a cat or if they want to come inside.
I have not really started any kind of "training" with them. Just lots of praise for everything they do right. Both are just starting to take treats out of my hand. Really focusing on getting the girl to come out of the crate and sit with me since she is so shy.
Well I must go and get some sleep. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and I will update more later as time allows.
Both dogs are doing WONDERFUL!!!!
The girl:
She is still shy and spends a lot of time at the back of the crate.. she is coming around though. She was missing fur all over her back and hind legs BUT I'm very proud to say she has fuzz EVERYWHERE she was missing fur!!!! Going to take a long time for her to look like a Cavalier and not a rat terrier but its a start! She also no longer has any dandruff!
Her ears are no longer red or greasy. I'm still watching them though. I Trimmed the mats away from her inner ear so its gets some air plus I'm using ear treatment on it.
She also seems to be at a better weight already. Probably can still add a little more but overall a much better weight!
I have been using a little bit of a plague remover for dogs in the water bowl. Tonight I noticed her teeth look a lot better. She has started to chew a little on edible bones and favors dry dog food. It looks like she only needs 1 or 2 teeth pulled. (Lucky Girl)
Her main bad habit is she will pee on any blankets outside of the kennel. Which is then followed by the male peeing on top of it. As long as keep blankets up outside the kennel she does not potty anywhere on the tile floor.
The boy:
Oh, he is SUCH a love! He has the SWEETEST personality! He reminds me a lot of Flash. I truly believe he was someone's pet before. He let me bath him, blow dry him and he sat on the floor without anyone holding him to let me trim all of his nails. He always has a look of true happiness on his face! If I have to place him he will be a Hard one to let go. I'm already attached to him.
His coat has softened up so much. He really feels like a cavalier now. He still has a lot of yellow stains on his leg feathers, belly and tail that wont come out but that is trivial. His ears looked normal after just 2 treatments of ear drops. He is eating well and the belly band that fit him when he came here is gonna be too tight here soon. (Gotta start sewing more ASAP as that is the biggest one I have.) He still needs another pound or two at LEAST to be near an ideal weight. His ribs still stick out but not as bad.
His bad habits... He barks at cats. Every time he so much as SEES a cat from across the room he goes off. I'm sure this is going to take a LOT of reconditioning if it is possible at all. He occasionally will mark if I leave the belly band off but he is overall pretty good. I have been using it a LOT less then when I first brought him home. He mainly will only pee if the female pees first.
Also there barking has almost stopped. They only time they bark now is if the male sees a cat or if they want to come inside.
I have not really started any kind of "training" with them. Just lots of praise for everything they do right. Both are just starting to take treats out of my hand. Really focusing on getting the girl to come out of the crate and sit with me since she is so shy.
Well I must go and get some sleep. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and I will update more later as time allows.
Reptigirl
Well-known member
One more question:
Flash has very straight fur and it appears the mom will have straight fur as well. But Blitz has VERY VERY dense tight curly fur. No matter how much I brush him it still curls up into tight little curls. It actually makes him appear bigger then he really is.
I know there is the condition with the dry eyes and curly coat. Is this something i should be worried about and watching out for? When he first came home the whites of his eyes were red. Also when I saw him for the first time they were red. But now they are white and seem normal. Don't look dry or anything. Is there anything else I should look out for?
Just thought I would ask as it crossed my mind while I was spending time with them tonight.
Flash has very straight fur and it appears the mom will have straight fur as well. But Blitz has VERY VERY dense tight curly fur. No matter how much I brush him it still curls up into tight little curls. It actually makes him appear bigger then he really is.
I know there is the condition with the dry eyes and curly coat. Is this something i should be worried about and watching out for? When he first came home the whites of his eyes were red. Also when I saw him for the first time they were red. But now they are white and seem normal. Don't look dry or anything. Is there anything else I should look out for?
Just thought I would ask as it crossed my mind while I was spending time with them tonight.
Well the rescues are here
WELL THE RESCUES ARE HERE.
It is Great what you have done for these wee Cavaliers.
Merry Christmas to you and your 4 Legged Friends .
Bet
WELL THE RESCUES ARE HERE.
It is Great what you have done for these wee Cavaliers.
Merry Christmas to you and your 4 Legged Friends .
Bet
*Pauline*
Well-known member
Looking at your video, Dylan's fur is much worse than Blitz. His fur was long silky and straight/fluffy and then went VERY curly/wavy on his back after his back was shaved for a spinal tap and he went on SM meds. It makes him look huge but he is only 7kilos. I think many things can turn the fur this way.
Ruth
Well-known member
It's amazing what a tiny amount of affection and good treatment can do. They both sound as though they are doing really well and in such a short amount of time too it bodes well for their futures.
The first rescue I took in years ago had skin like an elephant, she was a black and tan and had no hair at all on her back end and the skin was grey and wrinkled. Three months later she was a different dog and I think as well as food it is a general feeling of just being loved that helps their wellbeing.
I wouldn't worry about the boy's coat, some of the dogs can be very curly, his eyes look fine and he already looks such a happy boy. You are doing a marvellous job.
The first rescue I took in years ago had skin like an elephant, she was a black and tan and had no hair at all on her back end and the skin was grey and wrinkled. Three months later she was a different dog and I think as well as food it is a general feeling of just being loved that helps their wellbeing.
I wouldn't worry about the boy's coat, some of the dogs can be very curly, his eyes look fine and he already looks such a happy boy. You are doing a marvellous job.
