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I am so pleased to announce........

Where in my post did you see any mention of Cavalier Club Health forms.

The result of the 50% of Cavalier having a heart murmur before they are 5 came from information that was collected from the general cavalier pet owning population that was diagnosed by there Vets and not infomation that was gathered from the forms that the members of the Cavalier Clubs.

That is what i had heard.
 
Where in my post did you see any mention of Cavalier Club Health forms.

The result of the 50% of Cavalier having a heart murmur before they are 5 came from information that was collected from the general cavalier pet owning population that was diagnosed by there Vets and not infomation that was gathered from the forms that the members of the Cavalier Clubs.

That is what i had heard.

If you are talking about the UK, you heard wrong.
 
The results came from UK Vets

Perhaps you would like to direct me to where you obtained that information? It will be a revelation to many interested people.

It is obviously from an unknown source of data that will be helpful when reports are compiled in the months to come.
 
Where in my post did you see any mention of Cavalier Club Health forms.

The result of the 50% of Cavalier having a heart murmur before they are 5 came from information that was collected from the general cavalier pet owning population that was diagnosed by there Vets and not infomation that was gathered from the forms that the members of the Cavalier Clubs.

That is what i had heard.

rida, either I am not understanding you, or what you have heard elsewhere was incorrect. By far, most of the statistics which show that over half of all cavaliers have MVD murmurs by their fifth birthdays has come from examinations conducted by cardiologists (at least in the USA) at cavalier health clinics. Most of these clinics are conducted at conformation shows, but some are "stand alone" clinics also sponsored by cavalier clubs.

One of the purposes of these clinics is to compile the statistics of onset of the murmurs. Another purpose is to inform the dogs' owners whether or not their dogs have murmurs, and if so, what the grades of those murmurs are. That is all that usually happens at these clinics. They are not designed to further diagnose the disorder or to prescribe treatment.

At most of these clinics, the form filled out by the cardiologist is at least a two-part carbon set, with one copy of the form being given to the dog's owner, and the other copy retained by the cardiologist for submission to the data-base (without identifying information as to the particular dog).

The owners do not have to be club members, as anyone usually may bring a cavalier to a club-sponsored clinic.
 
Given that Margaret was the health rep for many years for the UK and involved in fundraising for heart research -- I think she'd know the source of heart information:rolleyes: but of course any query directly to the club will get the same answer, or to Simon Swift.

Maybe you should have been listening to the people who actually know something rather than those who propagandise (eg us rather than some of your informants in 'Them'? as you put it elsewhere :D)

At the Uk club health days pet owners can also bring dogs; not sure if that info goes to the research statistics separately from the club member submitting s form as Marrgaret says. But anyone I know who has gone to heart events in the US or UK has said the majority testing dogs will be club members or people with dogs bred by club members.
 
I am so pleased to announce.....

Perhaps you would like to direct me to where you obtained that information? It will be a revelation to many interested people.

It is obviously from an unknown source of data that will be helpful when reports are compiled in the months to come.


I AM SO PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE.....

rida,

Like Margaret , would you please tell us the Source where your Information has come from.

If you won't ,then it must be lies you are Spreading.

If you won't give the Facts to back up your Comments , can I say this is what is doing so much Damage to our Cavalier Breed by giving False Statements to the Cavalier Buying Public in Lulling Them into a False Security about how Very Serious the MVD Problem is Afflicting our Beloved Cavaliers ,and they won't feel they should be asking to see a Certificate from the Cavalier Breeders as to whether they are Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations given by the Researchers and the UK CKCS CLUB.

Is this what you are wanting?

Are you a Cardiologist ?

I sure await your answers with much Interest.

Bet
 
I think there is some confusion here. I'm sure that most vets in the UK (and probably in the US as well) are able to say 'Yes, from my own experience, 50% of Cavaliers will have a heart murmur before they are 5.' But the ordinary stethescopes used by local vets are not sensitive enough to pick up accurately the degree and seriousness of a murmur - only that a murmur exists and that it may be 'slight' or 'serious'. For accurate diagnosis and grading of murmurs, the specialist stethescope of a cardiologist is needed, and that is why the database and statistics are based on the club heart clinics, where the examination is done by a cardiologist, not on the less accurate experience of local GP vets. They can pick up that there is a murmur and that a dog of breeding age should not be bred from, but can't accurately pinpoint the level of murmur.

An example of this is my own Aled. When I first had him at 18 months, my vet picked up that he had a 'mild' heart murmur. I took him to be checked by Simon Swift at the club Ch. show a couple of months later, and he was graded 2. The following year Simon graded him 3, although my own vet had not picked up that his murmur had got worse. A grade 3 in a 3-year-old is a cause for vigilance, though Aled is so far very fit; it is a bit more than a 'mild' murmur. This is why the research data needs to be based on checking by a cardiologist; local vets can speak from their own experience but can't produce accurate enough data for research.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
The Advisory Council was set up in response to Bateson and other reports on dog breeding. The Council will be looking at welfare issues affecting all dogs, registered and unregistered, so we will be considering all breeds ( and crossbreeds ) when we give our comments.

Puppy farms and status dogs have also been flagged up as concerns by the Chairman, Prof. Crispin.

Do hope this will be the sort of thing that The Advisory Council will take URGENT action to stamp out

http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1033387822/6c4a6926.html

Can you BELIEVE the price they are asking and the claims they are making about what the pups will look like?
 
Oh for goodness sake [that is the polite version :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:]


£1000+ but sadly people will pay it for yet another designer mutt :(


No mention of any health testing for either breed I notice :(
 
rida, either I am not understanding you, or what you have heard elsewhere was incorrect. By far, most of the statistics which show that over half of all cavaliers have MVD murmurs by their fifth birthdays has come from examinations conducted by cardiologists (at least in the USA) at cavalier health clinics. Most of these clinics are conducted at conformation shows, but some are "stand alone" clinics also sponsored by cavalier clubs.

One of the purposes of these clinics is to compile the statistics of onset of the murmurs. Another purpose is to inform the dogs' owners whether or not their dogs have murmurs, and if so, what the grades of those murmurs are. That is all that usually happens at these clinics. They are not designed to further diagnose the disorder or to prescribe treatment.

At most of these clinics, the form filled out by the cardiologist is at least a two-part carbon set, with one copy of the form being given to the dog's owner, and the other copy retained by the cardiologist for submission to the data-base (without identifying information as to the particular dog).

The owners do not have to be club members, as anyone usually may bring a cavalier to a club-sponsored clinic.

I think what rod said is valuable information b/c there are health clinics and he has some listed for those in the usa on his website www.cavalierhealth.org. I think its important to have a cardiologist test the heart & people should take advantage (pet owners) of these clinics. As far as statistics etc. I don't known but from learning more and more, I would personally and will seek out some of these health clinics for ella. I think we all need to have an extra concern for the health of our dogs.


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A cavadoor? I don't think is very popular in the usa. Designer mixes are another issue all together.

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Oh,please. Cavadors? That's a backyard accidental litter. We had three cav/lab puppies here that were an accidental 'surprise' in Thelly's first foster! They grew up to look exactly like labradors -- great dogs, but hardly a 'designer cross'. You can help save the life of a lab cross at every pound and shelter in any country you go to, and for free, rather than bring more puppies into the world when so many get put down. These people are ridiculous, not to mention putting the mother's life at risk trying to pass puppies from a far larger breed, if the mother is the cavalier. :mad: They will all run the risk of lab health issues and/or cavalier heath issues.
 
And as for size -- they are not 'smaller versions of labradors', they are nearly the size of a full grown labrador. Maybe an inch or two shorter -- these are BIG bouncy lab-like dogs and whatever fools are willing to pay that amount for their 'little labradors' will be in for quite a surprise. They are not a popular cross at all in the US either -- I have never even heard of anyone deliberately coming up with such a cross. :sl*p:

This is how big they are -- Ginger's puppies as adults!! Lovely girls, but so much for little small labradors!!! :rolleyes:

2707648130_34a7688aba.jpg
 
To be honest (and I love dogs) but they look like any heinz 57 you could see in any run down area!
Again;a bit of a bee in my bonnet about crossing breeds, but crossing the temperament of a labrador with a cavalier - Uh Uh!
 
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