people' ignorant opinions..

Everytime I bring up Cavalier health issues or my dog's SM, to people around that are not dog owners, with the objective to raise awareness, I'm always shocked how quick they are to point a finger towards me, blaming me for owning a Cavalier.

" I'm against pure breeds". "You should get a cavalier mix next time, or a dog from the pound.." "I can't believe you own one of those dogs, it's unethical..." "They should make those dogs illegal" etc.. Blah blah blah etc..
It makes me mad. I may have not made the right decision by not researching the breeder enough and asking for parents MRI's but seriously; it offends me that people blame owners for current health status or just simply think eliminating the breed all together is the solution.
I always try to explain to them a cavalier is not just like "any dog" but has such a specific, beautiful personality that can not just be found in any dog from the pound or other breed and that I simply don't want any other breed.

You should not feel bad. Now I would love a cavalier rescue but I love the personality and it is the reason I got ella. I needed that type of temperment. Sure there maybe a dog needing a home and could be just as beautiful inside but I love cavaliers.

The thing about pure breeds is that you can trace health issues and are more known. Cavaliers have serious health issues but like you, I now unfortunately am well aware of now. I would not trade ella for the world. I also will always want a cavalier but because I know more about the health issues now, my next cavalier will be a rescue. If I bought a puppy, I would make sure that they breeder is very health oriented and does even more than what is expected.

I hate that too b/c I don't need to feel bad for having or wanting a cavalier. I don't, they simply are the best little dogs especially on the inside and out

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Thanks Annie. Yes, I agree with you. I would also do better health checks on parents or get a rescue. But I don't want any other breed than a cavalier.
Sure there are tons of wonderful dogs out there, but this breed touches my heart. :lotsaluv:

Blondiemonster said:

Thanks Annie. Yes, I agree with you. I would also do better health checks on parents or get a rescue. But I don't want any other breed than a cavalier.
Sure there are tons of wonderful dogs out there, but this breed touches my heart. :lotsaluv:

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Me too, because that is what happened to me when we got our first Cavalier in 1983.

I have also had bad experiences from Joe Public. Holly Poppet has Dry Eye/Curly Coat Syndrome, which makes her coat stand on end and is also probably unique in having a double paw attached to one of her front legs, which is obvious to see. She went through some terrible suffering as a tiny pup, which took some months to diagnose and treat successfully. Now she has a happy and as near normal life as I can give her. She is a keen competitor at Companion shows in the local parks - 'tail wagger extraordinaire' I call her.:snap:

People stop me when she is out in the stroller with me, while using public transport or at the vet's. They ask what breed she is, then make remarks about sick dogs. One idiot even said in a very loud voice that I was some poor old dear who had 'lost the plot' and been sold a sick pup. 'That's what them breeders are like' she said. One of the neighbours makes a point of stopping me in the street to tell me what a cruel woman I am by keeping a sick and ugly dog alive.

I long ago gave up on telling these idiots that I have a cute little dog who is beautiful on the inside, that she has as much right to life as any other living creature and almost every dog that ever was will sooner or later suffer from one health problem or another and isn't that why they are sitting in the vet's waiting room right now? :bang:

You hit the nail squarely on the head by saying 'but this breed touches my heart'

ByFloSin said:

I have also had bad experiences from Joe Public. Holly Poppet has Dry Eye/Curly Coat Syndrome, which makes her coat stand on end and is also probably unique in having a double paw attached to one of her front legs, which is obvious to see. She went through some terrible suffering as a tiny pup, which took some months to diagnose and treat successfully. Now she has a happy and as near normal life as I can give her. She is a keen competitor at Companion shows in the local parks - 'tail wagger extraordinaire' I call her.:snap:

People stop me when she is out in the stroller with me, while using public transport or at the vet's. They ask what breed she is, then make remarks about sick dogs. One idiot even said in a very loud voice that I was some poor old dear who had 'lost the plot' and been sold a sick pup. 'That's what them breeders are like' she said. One of the neighbours makes a point of stopping me in the street to tell me what a cruel woman I am by keeping a sick and ugly dog alive.

I long ago gave up on telling these idiots that I have a cute little dog who is beautiful on the inside, that she has as much right to life as any other living creature and almost every dog that ever was will sooner or later suffer from one health problem or another and isn't that why they are sitting in the vet's waiting room right now? :bang:

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How terrible, you've brought tears to my eyes:cry*ing: I can't believe how cruel people can be in their ignorance! Everyone always thinks Dylan is a very old dog and when I tell them he is only 5 but he is very ill you can see the shock on their faces. Whilst no-one has ever said anything to me you can tell what they are thinking!

Little Holly Poppet is as beautiful as any other dog.

If they can spend just 5 minutes with a Cavalier

I can't imagine they would not change their minds. They are irreplaceable. Period. End of story. Their loss!:swear:

I can understand how it offends you that owners are blamed when the information is not available and breeders are not honest about the health problems, but I have to say there are some sentiments being expressed on this thread that make me stop and think.

I don't mean to offend, the special needs dogs written about on this thread, and indeed on this forum, are lucky to be owned by people who love and delight in them so much, but there are complex welfare issues in the future if cavaliers continue to be bred and their health issues are not controlled.

Cavaliers have been part of my life for decades. I am someone that has owned shown and bred cavaliers for thirty five years.
I had a UK top stud dog ( Ch. Mareve Indiana )that produced champion offspring all over the world. I was one of the first owners that went public about the problem when I first saw him writhe and scream in pain when he was eleven years old.

Since then I have kept myself well informed about SM and I provide material for research. I have people contacting me all the time, some of them have puppies under a year old with severe symptoms, and more & more I have come to the conclusion that it is the beautiful sweet temperament of the cavalier that makes it so easy to exploit and ruin.

In so many ways cavaliers are their own worst enemies. Easy to breed, if you don't bother to test, and very easy to sell, it is a breed that quite rightly touches the heart of pet owners, and that is why commercial breeders favour them.

Let me put to you all a question that may make you feel indignant and uncomfortable, but I'll ask it anyway, because it is the demand from pet owners that makes it worthwhile for breeders to continue to produce cavaliers.

I know that you love your cavaliers, and they are special, and you would want another cavalier, but do you think it is right that a breed of dog continues to be bred and suffer, in the way that so many of the SM dogs suffer, so that pet owners can have the dog of their choice?

I am talking about what is in the dog's interest here, not what the owner is prepared to do for a special needs dog, because it is not the owners that suffer the pain.
Is there a point at which caring people should say no more?

I ask this because I must very soon make the decision to mate my little Faith again ( the mating did not 'take' six months ago ) and increasingly there are many knowledgeable people, that I really respect, who think it is wrong to continue to breed dogs that have such an ever increasing risk of suffering severe pain sometime during their lifetime.

And of course SM is only one of the many health problems in cavaliers

Those people are just ignorant I deal with similar comments about how it's cruel to own a purebred dog when there are so many unwanted dogs in shelters. I say if all humans who decide to get a dog (shelter or purebred) would be responsible owners there would be little to no dogs in the shelters/rescues. Unfortunately many of the people who make those stupid comments are the ones who will give up their dog if they turn up health issues, or their new significant other doesn't like dogs or simply the dog is not so cute anymore. They think pets are disposable and don't realize they are a lifetime commitment.
People say to me all the time when they hear about Jack's health issues, "wow, he is lucky to have you, I would have given up my dog", I always reply, "No, I am lucky to have him and he is stuck with me for life"
I love all animals and types of dogs but cavie's will always have a special place in my heart:lotsaluv:

Margaret I just saw your post after I posted my reply.
That is a tough questions to answer because as a cavi owner I love the breed and cannot imagine them not being in existence. I do however not want to see them suffer. Can an answer be to just continue to make the public aware that these little dogs have tons of health issues and should not be purchased from anyone but a breeder who is invested in perserving the breed? I know it is a huge task because with pet stores and internet sales there is such a vast amount of poor breeders/puppy farms contributing to this and many other breeds demise.
I think this was an important question to ask because we must think of the dogs well being first.

I knew about the risks involved with owning a cavalier. Part of it yes, is the fault of the owner for not carefully researching the breeder. But how on earth is it our fault for wanting one of the sweetest, cutest, and best personalities in a dog? With a mutt, these things just cannot be predicted as well with a pure bred. The whole point of getting a pure bred animal is to have a greater chance of a pet with desireable traits!!!!

Margaret C said:

I can understand how it offends you that owners are
Let me put to you all a question that may make you feel indignant and uncomfortable, but I'll ask it anyway, because it is the demand from pet owners that makes it worthwhile for breeders to continue to produce cavaliers.

I know that you love your cavaliers, and they are special, and you would want another cavalier, but do you think it is right that a breed of dog continues to be bred and suffer, in the way that so many of the SM dogs suffer, so that pet owners can have the dog of their choice?

I am talking about what is in the dog's interest here, not what the owner is prepared to do for a special needs dog, because it is not the owners that suffer the pain.
Is there a point at which caring people should say no more?

I ask this because I must very soon make the decision to mate my little Faith again ( the mating did not 'take' six months ago ) and increasingly there are many knowledgeable people, that I really respect, who think it is wrong to continue to breed dogs that have such an ever increasing risk of suffering severe pain sometime during their lifetime.

And of course SM is only one of the many health problems in cavaliers

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Hey Margaret. I think the solution may be to regulate breeding much more carefully? I honestly think it needs to be made pretty much against the law to breed and sell Cavies who's parents are not clear of SM and heart disease. That also goes for other breeds with similar problems. The main issues per breed need to be identified, and then tackled. I know it is almost impossible to do... because there will be so many less cavies, and waiting lists of years and years and then they will become very exclusive, then expensive and then... you'll have a bunch of scumbags breeding them in there back yards and then ure back to square one... But ofcourse, I do think the fact that breeding is not regulated at all, and "everything goes", doesn't help.

As for your little Faith; I assume she is scanned and free of SM? i dont think it's irresponsible breeding only the best dogs. At the time I got Blondie, I wasn't aware of SM, and to be quite honest it was a bit of a reckless decision. One I don't regret however, because I also knew that I would never get rid of a pet no matter what and so I was accepting the consequences.
To answer your question; no , I would not want to own another cavalier at the cost of the breed suffering. Therefore I am determined to either get a rescue or get a dog from parents with the best proven track records. And if that means I have to go on a two year waiting list. So be it.
I know that SM can show in later age too.. so not even a clear scan on the parents guarantees no problems.. but we have to start somewhere... And when we keep scanning our dogs and only breeding the best, eventually we will eliminate or seriously diminish down the problem...

p.s As for " it's not the owner who suffers the pain" I'm not sure I agree with that Margaret. I know what you mean , in terms of the physicial pain, but I sometimes have a feeling we suffer even more than they do. I can literally feel my heart fall to pieces and my stomach shred when something is wrong with my girl. The emotional pain of dealing with a dog you love that is sick is borderline unbearable, and is one of the biggest lessons in "responsible buying/ownership" you can ever learn. I will not ever be the same person after this, leave alone buy a dog the way I did before.

U

lovecavaliers said:

Margaret I just saw your post after I posted my reply.
That is a tough questions to answer because as a cavi owner I love the breed and cannot imagine them not being in existence. I do however not want to see them suffer. Can an answer be to just continue to make the public aware that these little dogs have tons of health issues and should not be purchased from anyone but a breeder who is invested in perserving the breed? I know it is a huge task because with pet stores and internet sales there is such a vast amount of poor breeders/puppy farms contributing to this and many other breeds demise.
I think this was an important question to ask because we must think of the dogs well being first.

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I feel so much like both of you and maybe it has something to do with being in the same country especially with how many dogs are put to sleep etc. If we have responsible breeders then I think the same way, less would end up there.

I too have been told there is a reason that God gave me ella. Yes I fell in love with the breed, but I also am very sad that people don't know about the health issues or choose to ignore them at the cost of health. I know there is a demand for cavaliers and it makes me so upset to see the internet ads and breeders who don't do anything or follow protocols. However, I am not helping those breeders b/c I would never buy a cavalier from them. In fact, I would like to raise awareness, make it stricter or mandatory to follow protocols, whatever it takes to not allow for irresponsible breeding. Its a very tough question but giving up or having breeders that are trying to breed for a A cavalier or without CM/heart issues would not be a solution I feel.

I agree with lynn about waiting however long yet people do want instant gratification and there will still be people to ignore that. We just got back from a cavalier meet up. Ella had so much fun! However, I was talking to someone who said she wanted a cavalier and they happened to have one at a furniture store. Didn't want one that was fixed so she could breed (she said she is lucky her vet said he was healthy when asked about testing) Luckily, the cavalier was fixed not to her want but it shows how people will ignore it.

I had people tell me didn't you buy ella from a breeder to eliminate health issues? They meant mvd because they never heard of sm. Ellas parents hearts were clear and she was breed from parents age 5 & 6. After people blamed my breeder (she must have come from a puppy farm or byb) no, she came from a breeder who is members of both clubs but did not scan at the time but that is a whole other issue and trying to raise awarenes, I was upset to see an email go out to the meet up group with pictures of cavalier puppies saying "just in time for christmas"

This was not the first time someone used this to advertise puppies. My best friend at the time a while back with a cavalier who knew how I felt about breeding for health and ellas problems said "I want one" when an email was sent. My heart dropped and it has been a sore place. I sent something to the person who started the meet up group about how wrong this was whatever.

To answer your question, it is not simple. I am torn b/c I think people love cavaliers see their cute face and buyers (even ones who I were close to) will still want one. Then I feel like I can still want a cavalier in the future also but buyers would need to be like me. I will only get a rescue or from a breeder that breeds for health or follow protocols. Ella is with me for as long as possible and like lynn, I am a changed person. everything important to me are not the same.

It is complicated and I want better regulations, if the pet buyers that want to purchase a dog on a whim (christmas present as the email said) could not, then maybe it would help. If 10 years down the road I want to get a cavalier, I hope those who are working hard to do what the can to save the breed did not give up.

Margaret, you are one that would breed for health. I know you would not breed a cavalier not scanned so I feel you are needed. Even with the chance of a offspring with SM, there is a chance with anything. That is why it is tough to be a great breeder. No dog (purebreed or not) will you know that all the puppies are going to be healthy.

The good thing, I feel, is that you can know what to do to make it more likely.

That's my opinion.




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I totally agree with Annie. Breeders who aim at breeding healthy pups cannot give up or it will make the problem worse. The downfall of the cavalier is pretty much a guarantee when responsible breeders give up.

Also I wanted to add the reason I feel so strongly about their temperment.

I did not get ella b/c of her pretty face (sure it helped and it was a "sex in the city" dog) but I needed a dog to help me during a depression. So went I looked up breeds and read about cavaliers, I was drawn to them for their affection. She healed me.

Long ago cavaliers stemed from the origins of the original breed or class were called "comforter spaniels" then toy spaniels etc. I read that from barbara garnet wilsons book. They were used to heal and were in hospitals among other things. So whether its a cavalier or "comforter spaniel" as long as they don't lose that instinct and temperment is something I feel strongly about but I do believe its time to return the favor for what they have been used for years and what ella has done for me personally.

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Blondiemonster said:

I totally agree with Annie. Breeders who aim at breeding healthy pups cannot give up or it will make the problem worse. The downfall of the cavalier is pretty much a guarantee when responsible breeders give up.

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Totally agree. That is why I choose to support them because they are needed


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anniemac said:

Also I wanted to add the reason I feel so strongly about their temperment.

I did not get ella b/c of her pretty face (sure it helped and it was a "sex in the city" dog) but I needed a dog to help me during a depression. So went I looked up breeds and read about cavaliers, I was drawn to them for their affection. She healed me.

Long ago cavaliers stemed from the origins of the original breed or class were called "comforter spaniels" then toy spaniels etc. I read that from barbara garnet wilsons book. They were used to heal and were in hospitals among other things. So whether its a cavalier or "comforter spaniel" as long as they don't lose that instinct and temperment is something I feel strongly about but I do believe its time to return the favor for what they have been used for years and what ella has done for me personally.

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Couldn't have said it any better. These guys truly have this amazing personality, I am incredibly bonded with mine. I hope breeders dont give up, and that we all continue to try to educate people to not support BYBs and mills.

Having the very same problem

I can't believe that people would blame the owners for loving these dogs soooo much. I knew about syngromyelia before I purchased Churchill. But really I wouldn't change a thing. Never had a dog I loved sooo much that has loved me back with such a great personality. Hang in there.

I'm sorry you have to deal with people's ignorance. I think a lot of the issue is that if you don't have a Cavalier, you usually don't know that it's worth the risk. When I got my babies I absolutely knew (and still do) the risks as does anyone who gets any dog. A perfectly healthy mixed breed could run out in front of a car or eat something wrong costing thousands of dollars in medical bills. It's a lot like having children... you just never know, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying them while you can

Margaret C said:

I know that you love your cavaliers, and they are special, and you would want another cavalier, but do you think it is right that a breed of dog continues to be bred and suffer, in the way that so many of the SM dogs suffer, so that pet owners can have the dog of their choice?

I am talking about what is in the dog's interest here, not what the owner is prepared to do for a special needs dog, because it is not the owners that suffer the pain.
Is there a point at which caring people should say no more?

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Good question. I hate to think that Cavaliers as a breed could die out because of their health problems. However, as much as I dearly love these little dogs I honestly don't know if I would buy another puppy as things stand at the moment. I just don't think I could bear to watch another dog suffer as my Dylan has. You have a very difficult decision to make.

Margaret said:

I am talking about what is in the dog's interest here, not what the owner is prepared to do for a special needs dog, because it is not the owners that suffer the pain.
Is there a point at which caring people should say no more?

Holly Poppet's suffering was harrowing to say the least. How many of us have been part of a team of 3 struggling to hold a young puppy still for the opthalmologist to examine her eyes. The pup is screaming in agony every time her left eye is touched but drops have to be inserted and an opthalmoscope used. The pain is so great that the local anaesthetic already applied is not working. The fact that the owner has already been told by the GP vet that the eye should be taken out just added to the sleepless nights and the feeling of guilt for having taken Holly on and getting her this far.

The examination is finally completed, with the owner being given a lengthy prescription for medicines which may help to save the eye, but most of these things are not licensed for veterinary use and the GP vet refuses to either obtain or dispense them. A shouting match ensues between vet and owner, who then realises that the prescription can be dispensed at a pharmacy.

The owner gets little sleep, because the puppy needs 3 hourly medication, 24/7 for throughout the week before returning to the opthalmologist. Owner sheds tears and prays that she is doing the right thing for puppy. Suddenly puppy stands happily while eyes are being medicated, then puppy seems to forget the pain and plays with the other dogs for the first time as if discovering for the first time how life should be.

Puppy returns to opthalmologist, examination is made without a struggle and Schirmer Test approaches normal. Owner is advised to gradually reduce medications to 4 daily, tears and derma ointment as routine, but other meds to be applied if needed. Puppy is discharged back to GP Vet. Owner and vet embrace and exchange animosity for collaboration in dealing with puppy's problems.

2 years go by with puppy growing into otherwise normal but dependent on medication young dog. Schirmer tests eventually reduced to twice yearly, with well above average results. No recurrence of eye ulcers in that time.

Imagine going through that Margaret - the guilt and the pain, then the joy at knowing that you have done your very best for a sickly little scrap of nothing, who will never look or live as a Cavalier should, but has a zest for life which exceeds everyone's expectations and is mainly healthy.

Having read this, are you still of the opinion that it is the dog and not the owner who feels the pain and how could this owner ever say that there was a point when she should have said 'no more'?