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people' ignorant opinions..

Very few of us willingly asked for this burden.Its great that we all strive to make life better for our dogs who do not enjoy the best of health.
With the right to own a dog,comes the duty to take care of it's health requirements as well as it's welfare etc..
It's hard for people who do not own dogs to understand the bond between dog and owner.
No doubt some of us go the extra mile to keep our dogs alive.
But there's a limit to how much pain I can inflict on my family and a limit to how much I can allow the dog to suffer in order to extend it's life.I don't ever want any of my dogs to become martyrs.
I think it might take a healthy dose of reality from a friend or family member to push me to make a decision.I can recall a screaming match with my mother last year when it came to having their 14 year old labrador PTS.It was clearly time for him to be
released and she could NOT bring herself to make the call to the vet.She was just not sufficiently detached to see just how far gone he was.
When it was done she was relieved and grateful for the push.
I hope she'll do the same for me if I fail to see the signs.
Sins
 
She was just not sufficiently detached to see just how far gone he was.
When it was done she was relieved and grateful for the push.
I hope she'll do the same for me if I fail to see the signs.
Sins
Well said Sins, I think we should all have a trusted friend/family member who can be objective and honest to help us see when the time has come if we just can't see it ourselves.
 
Good question. I hate to think that Cavaliers as a breed could die out because of their health problems. However, as much as I dearly love these little dogs I honestly don't know if I would buy another puppy as things stand at the moment. I just don't think I could bear to watch another dog suffer as my Dylan has.:( You have a very difficult decision to make.


Same here, i don't think i shall ever own another cavalier even though i adore the breed. I don't think i could bear being that helpless again, watchin a dog suffer and not being able to do enough to help :(
 
" I'm against pure breeds". "You should get a cavalier mix next time, or a dog from the pound.." .


FWIW, I gave a lot of consideration to getting a pound/rescue dog before I bought Sophie. I also bought Sophie with my eyes wide open. I had done my research and was informed about SM before I decided to make the gamble.

A lot of wonderful dogs come from pounds & shelters, and I know one personally. But at my age, I have neither the time, energy, nor do I have the patience and skill it might require to deal with an emotionally damaged dog. Nor do I have the knowledge to weed out the nutters when I choose a dog. Sophie is sufficient challenge for me right now.

My DIL's sister got a rescued shelter dog and it has all sorts of mental health problems that are not being resolved, on top of the fact that this young woman chose a Border Collie mix that is receiving neither exercise nor training from her.

I chose a pure breed because I have an idea about the temperament. I choose my breed based on size and temperament. Even the popular dog trainers on TV say that when you get a mixed breed, you really don't know which temperament will emerge in the dog, and that you can get the WORST of the breeds in the dog. This might be why DNA testing is becoming popular for dogs.

IMO, your best defense may be to not bring up the subject at all, and if someone else brings it up, dodge it gracefully and change the subject.
 
Last edited:
Blondiemonster said:


“" I'm against pure breeds". "You should get a cavalier mix next time, or a dog from the pound.."

I can ignore those comments especially about getting a dog from the pound because there will always be people that think never to buy a dog when there is one in a shelter. There is nothing wrong with their opinions and those are not going to change especially ones with dogs. However a mix is not an answer to be healthier because you can mix two of the worst and add MORE health problems but there is no use to give them thought.


"I can't believe you own one of those dogs, it's unethical..." "They should make those dogs illegal" etc.. Blah blah blah etc..
It makes me mad. I may have not made the right decision by not researching the breeder enough and asking for parents MRI's but seriously; it offends me that people blame owners for current health status or just simply think eliminating the breed all together is the solution.”



This and what ByFloSin said is where I get hurt:




“People stop me when she is out in the stroller with me, while using public transport or at the vet's. They ask what breed she is, then make remarks about sick dogs. One idiot even said in a very loud voice that I was some poor old dear who had 'lost the plot' and been sold a sick pup. 'That's what them breeders are like' she said. One of the neighbours makes a point of stopping me in the street to tell me what a cruel woman I am by keeping a sick and ugly dog alive.”


I am so sorry you are told that! We did not choose this like Sins said and I would never choose to have another dog with health problems unless I happened to run into money and wanted to help a rescue. I have changed a great deal and this has been the worst year but one where I realized who was there for me and Ella. We DO hurt too and I wish I could feel what Ella feels. Maybe since Ella is my first Cavalier, I would have a different opinion if I have seen several Cavaliers I loved from 30 years like Margaret die. However, why should I feel the way I do sometimes like I am being cruel to keep Ella alive? I know SM is painful and even CM can be more painful than an asymptomatic SM cavalier. So knowing that, it kills me inside. I only know if she is in pain by her eyes. Many others can not see what I see. So yes every time she licks her paw or scratches, I KNOW it might be something with SM. She has bad days and I freak out at every little thing. She is being managed on medication but I do wonder how much she is in pain and reading some comments or hearing things makes me feel that I am being selfish and how can I let her suffer?
I agree with Sins that there is a time to let go but not now. She was running and jumping, playing at the meet-up yesterday and had so much life that it is not the time now so why should I feel that this is being cruel? The only thing people notice about her is her eye which just seems a little red or different. Her eye like BloFloSin I spent several nights wondering what I should do. Should I just take it out and be done or since it does not seem to be bothering her I waited. A decision that turned out to be good since her eye greatly improved.
I am the only one to notice things right now since she doesn’t scream in pain. Yes she will yelp occasionally if I pick her up in a way it hurts her but that yelp hurts me to the bones. So why should I feel cruel since I own a Cavalier with SM and agree with Lynn that I don’t want to be blamed for the condition of the cavaliers health? No one should place blame since there are several factors including pet owners that choose to buy a puppy without researching the breed, Clubs, breeders, government etc. Yes, I too should have known more and I simply relied on the Club referrals. CHIC certificates, heart certificates, eye etc. and knew nothing about SM. I thought that the National Clubs would have the most information and I did not go to Rod’s website. I still wish they would put more on specifics on the club sites, however, I know now.

“I know that you love your cavaliers, and they are special, and you would want another cavalier, but do you think it is right that a breed of dog continues to be bred and suffer, in the way that so many of the SM dogs suffer, so that pet owners can have the dog of their choice?

I am talking about what is in the dog's interest here, not what the owner is prepared to do for a special needs dog, because it is not the owners that suffer the pain.
Is there a point at which caring people should say no more?


I still keep thinking about this because no I don’t want the breed or a dog to suffer and the way it makes it sound is that since I do want the opportunity in the future to own a cavalier, I am contributing to this. If I said no more, then I still would be hurting inside. It is hard not to say anything but the answer is not simple. Margaret, I have no idea what you have gone through and I feel so bad to know you have felt heartache for so long.
I feel everyone has the right to an opinion and there is no right answer. You have to do what you think is best not just breeding but with decisions regarding their health. It is hard not to feel bad or blamed for things or think that Ella should not be around because she has SM and I see her having difficulty climbing stairs. I am always asked how old she is because she seems older. So after feeling like I am cruel and she is in pain, I went to the meet up and I could see her how she is always greeting people, getting excited at the word squirrel, yesterday jumping up on her back legs to play with another, and it hit me. She does have a very serious condition but she is HAPPY and I will not let her not have a life because I am scared of what is around the corner. I have to enjoy every day with her. I know more now about her symptoms, the look in her face, the things others can’t see, but when the day comes like Sins said, I will count on others to help support me.
 
“I know that you love your cavaliers, and they are special, and you would want another cavalier, but do you think it is right that a breed of dog continues to be bred and suffer, in the way that so many of the SM dogs suffer, so that pet owners can have the dog of their choice?"

Margaret, this is one of the most profound questions I think I have heard and it actually brings tears to my eyes. Even though I have four cavaliers, one with SM, one with CM and a grade one murmur, I have still thought that I would always have cavaliers in my life. Your question however makes me rethink my whole value system. Like Lynn and Anne, my heart breaks every time Riley's SM causes her some distress or I notice that she seems to be getting worse. And my heart breaks every time I read stories of cavaliers who are in the final stages of heart disease and are struggling to breathe and to walk, or even just to sit or to lie down comfortably. And I realize that it's not just about whether I can take care of my dogs, and whether my dogs are comfortable and happy. It's a philosophical question about the future of the breed that I am not equipped to answer because my emotions get the better of me. I actually feel selfish because I want another cavalier. Could I learn to love another breed without feeling like a traitor? Absolutely, but it would take time.

My hope is that there is a future for the breed. I have sent the DNA and MRI of my oldie (he was 9 when he had the MRI) who does not have SM or MVD to Penny and Clare to add to their vast data bank. I love this breed. I hope they are here to stay in a much improved form.
 
Peoples ' ignorant opinions...

Blondiemonster said:


“" I'm against pure breeds". "You should get a cavalier mix next time, or a dog from the pound.."

I can ignore those comments especially about getting a dog from the pound because there will always be people that think never to buy a dog when there is one in a shelter. There is nothing wrong with their opinions and those are not going to change especially ones with dogs. However a mix is not an answer to be healthier because you can mix two of the worst and add MORE health problems but there is no use to give them thought.


"I can't believe you own one of those dogs, it's unethical..." "They should make those dogs illegal" etc.. Blah blah blah etc..
It makes me mad. I may have not made the right decision by not researching the breeder enough and asking for parents MRI's but seriously; it offends me that people blame owners for current health status or just simply think eliminating the breed all together is the solution.”



This and what ByFloSin said is where I get hurt:




“People stop me when she is out in the stroller with me, while using public transport or at the vet's. They ask what breed she is, then make remarks about sick dogs. One idiot even said in a very loud voice that I was some poor old dear who had 'lost the plot' and been sold a sick pup. 'That's what them breeders are like' she said. One of the neighbours makes a point of stopping me in the street to tell me what a cruel woman I am by keeping a sick and ugly dog alive.”


I am so sorry you are told that! We did not choose this like Sins said and I would never choose to have another dog with health problems unless I happened to run into money and wanted to help a rescue. I have changed a great deal and this has been the worst year but one where I realized who was there for me and Ella. We DO hurt too and I wish I could feel what Ella feels. Maybe since Ella is my first Cavalier, I would have a different opinion if I have seen several Cavaliers I loved from 30 years like Margaret die. However, why should I feel the way I do sometimes like I am being cruel to keep Ella alive? I know SM is painful and even CM can be more painful than an asymptomatic SM cavalier. So knowing that, it kills me inside. I only know if she is in pain by her eyes. Many others can not see what I see. So yes every time she licks her paw or scratches, I KNOW it might be something with SM. She has bad days and I freak out at every little thing. She is being managed on medication but I do wonder how much she is in pain and reading some comments or hearing things makes me feel that I am being selfish and how can I let her suffer?
I agree with Sins that there is a time to let go but not now. She was running and jumping, playing at the meet-up yesterday and had so much life that it is not the time now so why should I feel that this is being cruel? The only thing people notice about her is her eye which just seems a little red or different. Her eye like BloFloSin I spent several nights wondering what I should do. Should I just take it out and be done or since it does not seem to be bothering her I waited. A decision that turned out to be good since her eye greatly improved.
I am the only one to notice things right now since she doesn’t scream in pain. Yes she will yelp occasionally if I pick her up in a way it hurts her but that yelp hurts me to the bones. So why should I feel cruel since I own a Cavalier with SM and agree with Lynn that I don’t want to be blamed for the condition of the cavaliers health? No one should place blame since there are several factors including pet owners that choose to buy a puppy without researching the breed, Clubs, breeders, government etc. Yes, I too should have known more and I simply relied on the Club referrals. CHIC certificates, heart certificates, eye etc. and knew nothing about SM. I thought that the National Clubs would have the most information and I did not go to Rod’s website. I still wish they would put more on specifics on the club sites, however, I know now.

“I know that you love your cavaliers, and they are special, and you would want another cavalier, but do you think it is right that a breed of dog continues to be bred and suffer, in the way that so many of the SM dogs suffer, so that pet owners can have the dog of their choice?

I am talking about what is in the dog's interest here, not what the owner is prepared to do for a special needs dog, because it is not the owners that suffer the pain.
Is there a point at which caring people should say no more?


I still keep thinking about this because no I don’t want the breed or a dog to suffer and the way it makes it sound is that since I do want the opportunity in the future to own a cavalier, I am contributing to this. If I said no more, then I still would be hurting inside. It is hard not to say anything but the answer is not simple. Margaret, I have no idea what you have gone through and I feel so bad to know you have felt heartache for so long.
I feel everyone has the right to an opinion and there is no right answer. You have to do what you think is best not just breeding but with decisions regarding their health. It is hard not to feel bad or blamed for things or think that Ella should not be around because she has SM and I see her having difficulty climbing stairs. I am always asked how old she is because she seems older. So after feeling like I am cruel and she is in pain, I went to the meet up and I could see her how she is always greeting people, getting excited at the word squirrel, yesterday jumping up on her back legs to play with another, and it hit me. She does have a very serious condition but she is HAPPY and I will not let her not have a life because I am scared of what is around the corner. I have to enjoy every day with her. I know more now about her symptoms, the look in her face, the things others can’t see, but when the day comes like Sins said, I will count on others to help support me.


PEOPLES ' IGNORANT OPINIONS


To Annie and Others

Just you Folk do what you think best for your 4 Legged Friends.

You will know when it's time to bite the Bullet and let them go.

We never had any of our Cavaliers through- out our nearly 40 years of having them ,suffering from SM, at least not that we know of, Heart Trouble yes,we have had Many Tears and Heart Ache because some died so young from MVD,
when Pippa died , she was Blind , but coped not too bad, the worst memory I have of Pip ,is when her Pal, Katy died suddenly with a Stroke and she was Put to Sleep, Pippa ,at Bed time realized Katy was not there and Howled all through the Night, so after Pippa's Death ,we decided enough was enough ,no more Cavaliers.

We could not be Dog Less, went to the Rescue Centre in Glasgow , and came home with Suzy, she is a bit of Whippet and I don't know what else.

I know I have rambled on , but don't heed what any-body says, just enjoy your Cavaliers,

Bet
 
Bet,

That is so sad :( I have heard of chilling stories of loss and how upset the other can be. Ella is my first dog (besides family dogs) and this past year has been extremely emotional and hard. So I can see how you or Margaret that have dealt with loss over years could be emoti

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Sorry, I sent it early. If I had been involved for several years I know I would feel different

Sometimes I wish I did not care but everyone on this forum does. So lynn we all just have to try and remain strong for our loved ones

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But there's a limit to how much pain I can inflict on my family and a limit to how much I can allow the dog to suffer in order to extend it's life.I don't ever want any of my dogs to become martyrs.
I think it might take a healthy dose of reality from a friend or family member to push me to make a decision.

Yes wise words -- it is finding the balance. I value my vets' opinions and advice on this, but also many times family or friends can see what we don't see and their gentle nudging (or indeed, loud arguing...) may be what is needed to give some real perspective.

I think if a dog or cat or any companion animal is tired most of the time, struggles to have any daily quality of life, and is experiencing regular, debilitating pain: that is when I have the responsibility and need the courage to realise the animal's choice would likely be not to have to endure and endure and endure. At that point would have to accept I would be making the loved pet suffer to postpone my own pain of taking a decision to give them their wings, or out of my own selfishness at not wanting to let them go, or to fool myself into thinking things might get better.

As a wise vet advised me once with one of my cats: there's a point when it is kinder to let them go to *avoid* further and prolonged relapses rather than to try to have them rally only to suffer more debilitating and painful declines. Wagtails posted well on this recently -- you try to help as long as there's quality of life then you let them go and free them from suffering ideally at a point before they are *really* in pain and miserable. I let that cat go when she was stabilised and on a drip, but ill. She had feline HIV and would soon face further serious assaults on her immune system. It can be hard to see clearly and outside advice can help.
 
Never really expected my little blurb to lead to one of the more serious and difficult philosophical and ethical discussion I have read on here... :eek:
But I'm glad we can all talk about this! It is obviously something a lot of people need to get of their chest.
When I started the thread I wasn't referring to anesthesia or anything, just sharing my frustration with the non dog owner people that haven't even ever met my dog, to share their 5 cents on dog care.
 
Never really expected my little blurb to lead to one of the more serious and difficult philosophical and ethical discussion I have read on here... :eek:
But I'm glad we can all talk about this! It is obviously something a lot of people need to get of their chest.
When I started the thread I wasn't referring to anesthesia or anything, just sharing my frustration with the non dog owner people that haven't even ever met my dog, to share their 5 cents on dog care.

The people on this forum are exceptional in that these questions can be asked and they will be answered honestly.
 
:cool: Annie, I'll def be in Charlotte this season when the race is there! We'll finally get to have a drink! (And who knows, maybe I can meet Ella too! Depending on how far I am from the Dog Bar :))
 
Btw I have never been to a Tracey but the hall of fame is uptown but the racetrack is actually outside of charlotte.

Its worth a trip :)

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yea but as far as i know the hotel where the t.v people stay is in charlotte. I dont drive though so ill have to figure something out. maybe my bf can drop me of somewhere. ;) u've never been to a race? I can get u a pass! :)
 
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