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Charlie our "Test Case" Spaniels In Need
- Thread starter Fifer
- Start date
Well it's just about a week since Charley arrived. He's loving his raw food and has eaten rabbit, lamb and chicken with no ill effects despite apparently being allergic to chicken; cooked processed chicken in dried food perhaps but not raw chicken it seems 
This morning he was so excited to see that the others were having sardines that I relented and gave him a tin too, next 24 hours might be interesting :lol:
He's sleeping really well, definitely not a morning boy which will have to change His skin is much softer, pinker and so much cooler than when he first arrived, his eyes are nice and bright, his drinking has reduced by at least 75%, his ears have stayed clean and no longer smell. I did have to trim his ears (sorry Cav owners) as they were really matted and there were some sores underneath it all, so at least they are getting fresh air now and have improved a lot.
He's a greedy little beggar but saying that he has also lost a 1/3rd of a kilo, might not seem much but he's a little dog and I have been feeding him more good raw food that he would normally have just to get it in his system and help him to recover.
Although too small to counter or table top surf in the conventional way Charley uses his brain and if there is a chair that hasn't been tucked in he will hop on it in order to gain the extra height he needs to walk on the table So chairs are firmly tucked away! Anyway here's a couple of pics taken this morning, I was hoping his new shampoo bar would have arrived so he could have had his first bath but so far no post
We all, including the house, smell of citronella to the extent that I could gag sometimes but what's a nice :yuk: lemony smell when it comes to helping Charlie.
Sandy & Charley x
I must say I am impressed with the coat improvement, in just 5 days there seems to be a little hair growth. I think he will have a gorgeous coat when it grows back fully. Hmmmmmmmm Wonder if it works for baldy men? Aromesse may have a missed marketing opportunity there! :fool: :badgrin:
This morning he was so excited to see that the others were having sardines that I relented and gave him a tin too, next 24 hours might be interesting :lol:
He's sleeping really well, definitely not a morning boy which will have to change
His skin is much softer, pinker and so much cooler than when he first arrived, his eyes are nice and bright, his drinking has reduced by at least 75%, his ears have stayed clean and no longer smell. I did have to trim his ears (sorry Cav owners) as they were really matted and there were some sores underneath it all, so at least they are getting fresh air now and have improved a lot. He's a greedy little beggar but saying that he has also lost a 1/3rd of a kilo, might not seem much but he's a little dog and I have been feeding him more good raw food that he would normally have just to get it in his system and help him to recover.
Although too small to counter or table top surf in the conventional way Charley uses his brain and if there is a chair that hasn't been tucked in he will hop on it in order to gain the extra height he needs to walk on the table
So chairs are firmly tucked away! Anyway here's a couple of pics taken this morning, I was hoping his new shampoo bar would have arrived so he could have had his first bath but so far no post We all, including the house, smell of citronella to the extent that I could gag sometimes but what's a nice :yuk: lemony smell when it comes to helping Charlie.
Sandy & Charley x
I must say I am impressed with the coat improvement, in just 5 days there seems to be a little hair growth. I think he will have a gorgeous coat when it grows back fully. Hmmmmmmmm Wonder if it works for baldy men? Aromesse may have a missed marketing opportunity there! :fool: :badgrin:
James
Well-known member
Poor wee soul, I have never stopped thinking of him since I first read your post yesterday, good for you to give him the chance when others declined. I do not know anything about raw feeding but if it works as you say this will be a test case indeed.
I am shocked the vet list though all those chemicals!
I am shocked the vet list though all those chemicals!
Margaret C
Well-known member
You are doing such a wonderful job on this poor little boy. Thank goodness there are people like you around.
Jane P
Well-known member
My cavalier went through months of eye problems but my vet insisted he did not have dry eye because his schirmer test was OK. Eventually I insisted he was referred to an ophthalmologist when he developed severe ulcers. The ophthalmologist knew immediately he had dry eye although his worst affected eye was so damaged it was producing excess amounts of tears and the schirmer test in this eye was over 20. He ended up having to have an emergency corneal graft which is extremely expensive. Please bear in mind what Flo has said about her Holly Poppet.
I am very sorry to hear about the suffering your cavalier endured. No doubt this experience has coloured your perspective, however Charlie is not the same dog nor are his symptoms the same. In Charlie's case, one day of a runny eye on Monday does not make it a long standing problem; nor does having mild conjunctivitis 3 times in 2 years and 4 months (2 of which occurred following vaccination), all of which cleared up within a week. Indeed Sandy's last post stated "eyes nice and bright" which is evidenced in his latest photo, had Charlie had months of eye problems like your dog, I would have stated so.
I am not a vet, I have not seen the dog other than the pictures you have also seen on this thread, but I have had the benefit of having read his veterinary report, of talking directly with his foster mum, previous owner and previous vet, as well as personal research of possible links or causes over a 4 week time frame, mostly until the early hours of the morning.
We do expect to encounter highs and lows, we both have very open minds and hope to increase our knowledge and understanding for the benefit of all dogs; to that end I can see no point in hiding facts. However, we are not going off on a wild goose chase looking for problems that aren't obvious, unless or until several symptoms coming together point us in one direction. As indeed does the link to the immune system, vaccination, commercial foods and hypothyroidism as seen on the following link
http://www.suite101.com/content/canine-hypothyroidism-a8673
"Several causes have been proposed for the rising incidence of canine hypothyroidism. Vaccines and inadequate or excess dietary iodine are the primary suspected causes. Studies have shown increased blood levels of thyroid antibodies occurring shortly after the administration of multiple-component vaccines. These antibodies are likely produced in response to contaminants from fetal calf serum commonly used to make canine vaccines. It is thought that these anti-bovine antibodies to thyroglobulin and fibronectin proteins then cross-react with a dog's own proteins, resulting in autoantibody production."
"Several studies have shown that the increased amounts of iodine salts in commercial dog foods contribute to the development of autoimmune hypothyroidism in canines, similar to the increased incidence of autoimmune thyroid disease in humans caused by iodine subsidization programs. A natural diet of cooked lamb, chicken, rice, and vegetables has been found to reduce the risk of canine hypothyroidism associated with commercial diets. Over time, some dogs may self-regulate and no longer need replacement hormone although most dogs with canine hypothyroidism will require lifelong thyroid replacement hormone."
Charlie is not suffering, and he will not suffer at our hands, if we had thought he was I would have advised his previous owner to go ahead with euthanasia, which she was considering before speaking with us.
Charlie was vaccinated in December and was in a horrendous condition (vets description) the following month despite being on steroids. Hence the reason for Charlie's complete detox, raw diet, followed by a full blood panel and titre test, which should offer our vet a more or less clean slate for testing and would appear to us at the moment to be a sensible way forward.
renate
Well-known member
i am glad to har that charlie is on the mend! he'll come round, i am sure of that.
might i suggest you to consider giving him a 'treatment' of Digest Boost form the company Peak Performance, irish, i think.
here link to their hp, so you can make inquiries, if you wish.
http://peak.ie/
it was recommend to my by our chirpractor when frida was having a bad spell, to boost her digestive system and help her liver cope with various waste products.
i can really recommend it.
all the best to the little guy
might i suggest you to consider giving him a 'treatment' of Digest Boost form the company Peak Performance, irish, i think.
here link to their hp, so you can make inquiries, if you wish.
http://peak.ie/
it was recommend to my by our chirpractor when frida was having a bad spell, to boost her digestive system and help her liver cope with various waste products.
i can really recommend it.
all the best to the little guy
ByFloSin
Well-known member
Your experience ties in with mine Jane. I watch Holly Ps Schirmer Tests like a hawk. Over 21 would send me back to the Opthalmologist for another work-up.
3 weeks ago the last Schirmer was done, which was very slightly down at 18, which my GP vet was happy with. My instinct was to watch her very carefully for signs of pain or green discharge, but there was nothing. Then last week she woke me early in the morning, screeching with pain and one side of her face saturated with clear liquid ? tears. I rushed her to the vet, where the opthalmoscope showed up a corneal ulcer covering most of the surface of the eye and looking ready to burst. Round the clock administration of medication has returned her eye to normal, but what that poor little thing has gone through is truly awful.
Dry Eye, even without Curly Coat, is an absolutely horrible disease and I live in fear of yet another dog being misdiagnosed until it is too late.
i am glad to har that charlie is on the mend! he'll come round, i am sure of that.
might i suggest you to consider giving him a 'treatment' of Digest Boost form the company Peak Performance, irish, i think.
here link to their hp, so you can make inquiries, if you wish.
http://peak.ie/
it was recommend to my by our chirpractor when frida was having a bad spell, to boost her digestive system and help her liver cope with various waste products.
i can really recommend it.
all the best to the little guy
Thank you for that, I'll check it out! :biggrin:
mommytoClaire
Well-known member
What a dear he is. Saying a praying for dear little Charlie! I am SURE he's worth all the work.
Cindy and Claire
Cindy and Claire
They are all worth the work
nothing gives me more pleasure than to see a happy, healthy and well balanced dog go off to it's new home (even if I am wiping tears from my eyes!). As for Charlie, well I have to say that Sandy reports no further scratching or rubbing for the last 2 days (big plus there). His skin must have been soooooooooo itchy and uncomfortable.
He's no longer licking his feet either, so his buster collar is a thing of the past.Even better, Sandy tells me his energy levels are getting better, he's sleeping normally now and is very active and on the go all day, lots of 'puppy' behaviour evident yesterday, ragging his toys and generally being a mischievous cavalier! :jmp: :*nana:
As this is a discussion of an individual dog and health/diet issues rather than an active rescue-related listing for a dog in need, I am moving the thread over to the health/diet section to keep the focus in Breed Rescue on dogs that need homes, foster or transport.
Charlifarley
Well-known member
That's fantastic to hear, at last he's enjoying life again. :rah:
renate
Well-known member
how good to hear that he is getting better!
i came to think of another harmless remedy to help the liver cope with toxines and waste products (og which charlie probably has lots.. ), dandylion tea.
there are not many dandylions around now, but dried ones can probably be bought.
i came to think of another harmless remedy to help the liver cope with toxines and waste products (og which charlie probably has lots.. ), dandylion tea.
there are not many dandylions around now, but dried ones can probably be bought.
Pupdate:
Beginning Week 3, Charley is feeling and looking much better, he's sleeping quite a bit but when he's up and about it's like he's reliving his puppyhood, doing everything you'd expect a 12 week old pup to be doing, getting up to mischief, pinching stuff and running off with it and teasing me to try and come and get it off him. He's a fabulous little guy and he's loving his raw food, he spins around and around as I take his dinners to his crate for him to eat and leaps so high to try and get it out of mid air along the way :jmp: I'm sure he'll learn some manners as time goes by but for now it's lovely to see him enjoying life again instead of living in a miserable itch/scratch situation 24 hours a day.
So to the latest update pics:
I think you'll all agree he's coming on a treat. We're not looking at some overnight fix here, it's going to take the best part of 6 months to get this fella back to anything like he should be in both coat and health but it'll take as long as it takes.
Happy with his progress so far then boss :grin:
My response:
:grin: I'll "boss" you!! Cheeky fing! :grin:
Legs are definitely growing more healthy coat which is wonderful, they look almost normal. There's some improvement to head, (do I see new healthy downy fur on the previously completely bald patch on his back??) and I think you are going to lose all that obviously 'dead' hair on his back! Is there any signs of growth under the dead coat?
Right do I have to do the techie bit?? Ok
We have been waiting for this, a "healing crisis" (or for the most techie minded a Herxheimer Reaction) sounds a bit daft doesn't it? We didn't know what form it would take but it is crucial to have this reaction and to know that this is the beginning of the immune system recovery. They usually occur at each step of recovery and Charlie will have several before he's 'mended'. The first occurred this week and saw Charlie with a total nose dive; gunky eyes and ears literally overnight. Poor Sandy she thought something had gone wrong! :grin: The healing crisis lasted just two days (they can last up to two to three weeks) and cleared naturally by just wiping the eyes and ears with natural products.
To elimate toxins etc from the body two things (other than plenty of rest, quality food, clean water and exercise) are essential. The organs ie liver, kidneys and bowels have to work efficiently; and the immune system has to recognise and begin to fight back against the invading organism or parasite. Why? Because as the bacteria and parasites die they break down and are absorbed by the host as another toxin. The method of elimination is via kidneys (pee) bowels (poop) AND most importantly (as in Charlie's case) the mucous membranes of the ears and eyes too.
That journey is just beginning, at least we now have had the first reaction, there will be more. As it was explained to us, it's like peeling away the brown layers of dead skin off an onion till you get to the onion itself.
http://www.dog-nutrition-naturally.com/herxheimer-reaction.html
Beginning Week 3, Charley is feeling and looking much better, he's sleeping quite a bit but when he's up and about it's like he's reliving his puppyhood, doing everything you'd expect a 12 week old pup to be doing, getting up to mischief, pinching stuff and running off with it and teasing me to try and come and get it off him. He's a fabulous little guy and he's loving his raw food, he spins around and around as I take his dinners to his crate for him to eat and leaps so high to try and get it out of mid air along the way :jmp: I'm sure he'll learn some manners as time goes by but for now it's lovely to see him enjoying life again instead of living in a miserable itch/scratch situation 24 hours a day.
So to the latest update pics:
I think you'll all agree he's coming on a treat. We're not looking at some overnight fix here, it's going to take the best part of 6 months to get this fella back to anything like he should be in both coat and health but it'll take as long as it takes.
Happy with his progress so far then boss :grin:
My response:
:grin: I'll "boss" you!! Cheeky fing! :grin:
Legs are definitely growing more healthy coat which is wonderful, they look almost normal. There's some improvement to head, (do I see new healthy downy fur on the previously completely bald patch on his back??) and I think you are going to lose all that obviously 'dead' hair on his back! Is there any signs of growth under the dead coat?
Right do I have to do the techie bit?? Ok
We have been waiting for this, a "healing crisis" (or for the most techie minded a Herxheimer Reaction) sounds a bit daft doesn't it? We didn't know what form it would take but it is crucial to have this reaction and to know that this is the beginning of the immune system recovery. They usually occur at each step of recovery and Charlie will have several before he's 'mended'. The first occurred this week and saw Charlie with a total nose dive; gunky eyes and ears literally overnight.
Poor Sandy she thought something had gone wrong! :grin: The healing crisis lasted just two days (they can last up to two to three weeks) and cleared naturally by just wiping the eyes and ears with natural products.To elimate toxins etc from the body two things (other than plenty of rest, quality food, clean water and exercise) are essential. The organs ie liver, kidneys and bowels have to work efficiently; and the immune system has to recognise and begin to fight back against the invading organism or parasite. Why? Because as the bacteria and parasites die they break down and are absorbed by the host as another toxin. The method of elimination is via kidneys (pee) bowels (poop) AND most importantly (as in Charlie's case) the mucous membranes of the ears and eyes too.
That journey is just beginning, at least we now have had the first reaction, there will be more. As it was explained to us, it's like peeling away the brown layers of dead skin off an onion till you get to the onion itself.
http://www.dog-nutrition-naturally.com/herxheimer-reaction.html
Jasper and Holly
Well-known member
What a wonderful person you are. I'm so glad Charley found you. What a difference you have made in such a short time. If only the world was full of people like you.