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Thread: Some cavalier in-bred co-efficients

  1. #61
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    I was at an regional club AGM last Sunday where a proposal that all committee members agree to breed according to the health guidelines was overwhelmingly beaten.

    One of the reasons given. It was discrimination to expect committee members to obey their own club's rules?

    While committee members break the rules then they have no moral authority to stop the most blatant flouting of standards by other members. Margaret.


    Guidelines are not rules; so they can't actually be broken..

    Maybe the members of the clubs don't agree with the guidelines, in which case that is a different matter, maybe they should be reworded or revised?

  2. #62
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    Default Some cavalier in-bred co-efficients

    Quote Originally Posted by Davecav View Post
    I was at an regional club AGM last Sunday where a proposal that all committee members agree to breed according to the health guidelines was overwhelmingly beaten.

    One of the reasons given. It was discrimination to expect committee members to obey their own club's rules?

    While committee members break the rules then they have no moral authority to stop the most blatant flouting of standards by other members. Margaret.


    Guidelines are not rules; so they can't actually be broken..

    Maybe the members of the clubs don't agree with the guidelines, in which case that is a different matter, maybe they should be reworded or revised?
    SOME CAVALIER IN-BRED CO-EFFICIENTS

    In reply to Davecav's Post.

    If our Cavaliers could Speak,would they say.

    WITH FRIENDS LIKE THIS ,WHO NEEDS............

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davecav View Post
    Guidelines are not rules; so they can't actually be broken..

    Maybe the members of the clubs don't agree with the guidelines, in which case that is a different matter, maybe they should be reworded or revised?
    Clubs don't set breeding guidelines, they are given by specialists.

    IMHO In this day and age following 'experts recommended Breeding Guidelines' would be wise. Look at what is happening in Holland. The best protection as a breeder comes from following specialists recommendations to help eradicate hereditary disease. Breeding with specialist guidance.

    Late onset diseases are not present in young animals, even in their parents if they are still young. Does it really make any difference to a long term breeding programme to wait a year or 18 months longer ? Does it really make a difference to wait until the parents are 5 ?

    A young stud dog, or young bitch, can spread their genes, good or bad, through a wide population, become grandparents, breeding doubled up on, all before their parents are old enough themselves to know if they are going to develop early onset disease themselves. Too late then to stop the spread of the undesirable genes - it could have gone into 3 more generations.
    Too late then to change your mind ! Even worse if all your friends did the same thing!

    I know there is an argument that says they've never been proven to work, but they've never been given a chance to prove that they don't work either.

    Like many others, I really wish our breeds health problems could be simply eradicated by genetic tests.......

    Maggie

  4. #64
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    Default Some cavalier in-bred co-efficients

    Quote Originally Posted by tuppenlil View Post
    Clubs don't set breeding guidelines, they are given by specialists.

    IMHO In this day and age following 'experts recommended Breeding Guidelines' would be wise. Look at what is happening in Holland. The best protection as a breeder comes from following specialists recommendations to help eradicate hereditary disease. Breeding with specialist guidance.

    Late onset diseases are not present in young animals, even in their parents if they are still young. Does it really make any difference to a long term breeding programme to wait a year or 18 months longer ? Does it really make a difference to wait until the parents are 5 ?

    A young stud dog, or young bitch, can spread their genes, good or bad, through a wide population, become grandparents, breeding doubled up on, all before their parents are old enough themselves to know if they are going to develop early onset disease themselves. Too late then to stop the spread of the undesirable genes - it could have gone into 3 more generations.
    Too late then to change your mind ! Even worse if all your friends did the same thing!

    I know there is an argument that says they've never been proven to work, but they've never been given a chance to prove that they don't work either.

    Like many others, I really wish our breeds health problems could be simply eradicated by genetic tests.......

    Maggie
    SOME CAVALIER IN-BRED CO-EFFICIENTS

    If the Researchers cannot be being Believed about the Cavalier Breeding Guidelines they are giving to Cavalier Breeders ,then who can be Believed.

    It is such a Foolish claim to be made ,OH WELL, The Breeding Recommendations have never been Proven to Work .

    WHO SAYS.

    The same few Cavalier Breeders who probably have never given those Breeding Recommendations the Chance to see if they could be Successful or not.

    Why do they seem to think that they should be the Voice of All Cavalier Breeders, do they not realize the Harm they are Inflicting on the Future of our Cavaliers , that is ,if the Cavaliers do have a Future , which is a Big Question at the Moment.

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  5. #65
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    Default Some cavalier in-bred co-efficients

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    SOME CAVALIER IN-BRED CO-EFFICIENTS

    If the Researchers cannot be being Believed about the Cavalier Breeding Guidelines they are giving to Cavalier Breeders ,then who can be Believed.

    It is such a Foolish claim to be made ,OH WELL, The Breeding Recommendations have never been Proven to Work .

    WHO SAYS.

    The same few Cavalier Breeders who probably have never given those Breeding Recommendations the Chance to see if they could be Successful or not.

    Why do they seem to think that they should be the Voice of All Cavalier Breeders, do they not realize the Harm they are Inflicting on the Future of our Cavaliers , that is ,if the Cavaliers do have a Future , which is a Big Question at the Moment.

    Bet


    SOME CAVALIER IN-BRED CO-EFFICIENTS

    Because I have been collecting the Ages of Long Lived Cavaliers for many years now and had noticed that a number of them had High COI's but had lived to a good age ,I've often wondered about this.

    If I could Post this Reply that I have just received ,it might be of a wee bit of Interest.

    "The COI is not inherently good or bad .

    It is a Probability that due to Common Ancestry of an Individual's Sire and Dam that the Individual will have both Gene Variants from an Identical Ancestral Source at any Gene.

    So, Progeny of a Full Sib Mating (where the Parents of the FSIBS are unrelated) is 0.25,i.e.there is a 25% chance that at any Gene (given a few Technical Assunptions) the 2 Coppies Inherited are Idenical .

    This may be due to Selection for a Certain Trait ,or due to Small Population Size etc.

    It is Important as a Measure of Risk ,since all Individuals Carry Defective Genes (MUTATIONS).

    When Paired with a Fully Functional Copy ,they do not Represent a Problem ,but when COPIES are the Defective Version then Disease can Arise.

    So the COI Represents a Risk of this of this happening , but does'nt make any Assessment of which Gene Pairs may have Identical Copies and Effects of Defective Copies.

    Therefore ,it is quite Possible for Highly In-Bred Dogs to Live a Long Time. "

    I hope I have understood this right, that it means that even although a Cavalier has a High COI ,lived to a Good Age, that it can be being said that Such and Such a Cavalier ,with a High COI lived to 15 or 16 years of age , so having a High COI makes no Difference , it depends on how Genes have Paired up for that particular Cavalier.

    Hope this has made sense to you .

    That Cavaliers with a High COI ,could still be at Risk.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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