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Thread: Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

  1. #1
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    Default Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

    I have to ask this Question because some Cavalier Breeders seem to be under the impression that they know better than the Cavalier Researchers into the SM and MVD Problems.

    Surely those Cavalier Breeders realize that the Figures given by the Researchers of CM ,around 90% , SM about 50%,and 50% of Cavaliers having Heart Murmurs at 5-6 years of Age ,that those Figures were not Plucked out of the AIR!

    The most Alarming Information to have come from the Foetal Tissue Research ,was that 85 Whelps ,ALL HAD CM.

    CM is Chacterised by the BRAIN being TOO BIG and the SKULL TOO SMALL .

    The Researchers and the Cavalier Club have issued Breeding Guidelines to try and Help those Problems in our Cavaliers ,to try and Delay the Onset of them ,Particulary MVD which the Cavaliers are the the only TOY Breed to have such an Early On-Set .

    What do we read, that there are still some Cavalier Breeders who keep insisting that those Breeding Guidelines are only Guidelines .

    That those Cavalier Breeders who say this ,keep claiming that that they know the Back-Ground of Cavalier Ancestors because they are Experienced Cavalier Breeders .

    If that is the case ,then why have they let the Cavalier Breed get into the Mess it's in to-day with their Health Problems!

    I will say again ,this Phrase which sure Applies to me ,by the Abuse I get .

    "If you Judge a Person by Their Enemies , then that is Some-one you'd always want in a Scrap. "

    This is why I will always be on the Side of our Cherished Cavaliers , so that they can have Healthier, Longer Lives.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    I have to ask this Question because some Cavalier Breeders seem to be under the impression that they know better than the Cavalier Researchers into the SM and MVD Problems.

    Surely those Cavalier Breeders realize that the Figures given by the Researchers of CM ,around 90% , SM about 50%,and 50% of Cavaliers having Heart Murmurs at 5-6 years of Age ,that those Figures were not Plucked out of the AIR!

    The most Alarming Information to have come from the Foetal Tissue Research ,was that 85 Whelps ,ALL HAD CM.

    CM is Chacterised by the BRAIN being TOO BIG and the SKULL TOO SMALL .

    The Researchers and the Cavalier Club have issued Breeding Guidelines to try and Help those Problems in our Cavaliers ,to try and Delay the Onset of them ,Particulary MVD which the Cavaliers are the the only TOY Breed to have such an Early On-Set .

    What do we read, that there are still some Cavalier Breeders who keep insisting that those Breeding Guidelines are only Guidelines .

    That those Cavalier Breeders who say this ,keep claiming that that they know the Back-Ground of Cavalier Ancestors because they are Experienced Cavalier Breeders .

    If that is the case ,then why have they let the Cavalier Breed get into the Mess it's in to-day with their Health Problems!

    I will say again ,this Phrase which sure Applies to me ,by the Abuse I get .

    "If you Judge a Person by Their Enemies , then that is Some-one you'd always want in a Scrap. "

    This is why I will always be on the Side of our Cherished Cavaliers , so that they can have Healthier, Longer Lives.

    Bet

    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED?

    I was told by a Neurologist about a couple of years ago ,that a Syrinx DENOTES SM.

    Yet some Cavalier Breeders still believe that a Cavalier can be Asymptomatic even with a Syrinx.

    That this can cause the SM Figures in our Cavaliers to be SKEWED.

    That this is being said that Cavaliers from Show Breeders in the UK that have been MRI SCANNED are approx 30% affected ,not the 50 % as has been claimed.

    The 800 plus that have been MRI Scanned will give a better idea.

    Also it should not be being forgotten that 60 Cavaliers were MRI Scanned for a CKCS CLUB IN Australia , 50 % had SM.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post

    Yet some Cavalier Breeders still believe that a Cavalier can be Asymptomatic even with a Syrinx.

    Bet
    A cavalier can be asymptomatic WITH a syrinx.

    Whether he/she remains completly asymptomatic for the rest of his/her life is another question........unless all breeders keep all dogs that scan with a syrinx and see what happens to them during their lifetime............

    Maggie

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    Default Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuppenlil View Post
    A cavalier can be asymptomatic WITH a syrinx.

    Whether he/she remains completly asymptomatic for the rest of his/her life is another question........unless all breeders keep all dogs that scan with a syrinx and see what happens to them during their lifetime............

    Maggie
    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED?

    I mentioned in my Previous Post that I was told about a couple of years ago by a Neurologist that having a Syrinx Denotes SM.

    That neurologist was Dr N. Jefferies.

    Is that information wrong .

    Does a Syrinx not Denote SM?

    It either does or it does'nt .

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED?

    I mentioned in my Previous Post that I was told about a couple of years ago by a Neurologist that having a Syrinx Denotes SM.

    That neurologist was Dr N. Jefferies.

    Is that information wrong .

    Does a Syrinx not Denote SM?

    It either does or it does'nt .

    Bet
    Yes Bet, Having a syrinx denotes having SM. But having a syrinx on an MRI scan does not necessarily denote having any symptoms. So a dog with SM may be (and may remain) asymptomatic.

    Maggie

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    Default Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuppenlil View Post
    Yes Bet, Having a syrinx denotes having SM. But having a syrinx on an MRI scan does not necessarily denote having any symptoms. So a dog with SM may be (and may remain) asymptomatic.

    Maggie

    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED ?

    Thanks Maggie for that, this ties in with what I have just read on Dr C. Rushbridge's Web Site.

    Quote".....SYRINXES can progressivly expand and a Dog which is ASYMPTOMATIC in early Live may eventually become Painful.

    However a Narrow Symmetricle (less than 3 millimeters wide) SYRINX or Central Canal Dilation is unlikely to develope a Pain Syndrome

    Some Owners opt for Intermittent Neurological Examination or even Repeat MRI to Assess for Progression .

    The real Significance of ASYMPTOMATIC Dogs is that their OFF-SPRING appear to have a Higher Chance of being AFFECTED and more Chance of being SYMPTOMATIC .

    For this REASON BREEDERS are ADVISED to MRI SCREEN THEIR BREEDING ANIMALS."

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED ?

    Thanks Maggie for that, this ties in with what I have just read on Dr C. Rushbridge's Web Site.

    Quote".....SYRINXES can progressivly expand and a Dog which is ASYMPTOMATIC in early Live may eventually become Painful.

    However a Narrow Symmetricle (less than 3 millimeters wide) SYRINX or Central Canal Dilation is unlikely to develope a Pain Syndrome

    Some Owners opt for Intermittent Neurological Examination or even Repeat MRI to Assess for Progression .

    The real Significance of ASYMPTOMATIC Dogs is that their OFF-SPRING appear to have a Higher Chance of being AFFECTED and more Chance of being SYMPTOMATIC .

    For this REASON BREEDERS are ADVISED to MRI SCREEN THEIR BREEDING ANIMALS."

    Bet

    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED?


    Neither wonder I asked this Question, when we who have had our Beloved Cavalier 4 Legged Friends suffer and die at an Early Age ,are accused of being Bitter and Blaming Everyone .

    In the Cavaliers' MVD Problem, Cavalier Breeders were warned in 1983 by the CKCS CLUB'S Cardiologist ,Dr P. Darke, after he had carried out Surveys at CKCS Shows ,about how Wide-Spread the MVD was in Our Cavalier Breed.

    Yet at the 2009 CKCS CLUB'S AGM the Club's Cardiologist said that 50% of Cavaliers had a Heart Murmur at 5-6 years of age, and those Figures are no better than they were 18 years ago.

    One of the CLUB'S Newly Appointed Health Representatives has claimed that she does not believe the Figures that the Researchers into the Cavaliers MVD Problem, and the other has said that she will not Divulge the Results of the MRI SCANS of her Cavaliers ,that they are only for Her Personal Information.

    I would think that it us Broken Hearted Cavalier Owners, who have Bought our Cavaliers in Good Faith ,who are Blameless.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default Why are some cavalier breeders still blinkered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED?


    Neither wonder I asked this Question, when we who have had our Beloved Cavalier 4 Legged Friends suffer and die at an Early Age ,are accused of being Bitter and Blaming Everyone .

    In the Cavaliers' MVD Problem, Cavalier Breeders were warned in 1983 by the CKCS CLUB'S Cardiologist ,Dr P. Darke, after he had carried out Surveys at CKCS Shows ,about how Wide-Spread the MVD was in Our Cavalier Breed.

    Yet at the 2009 CKCS CLUB'S AGM the Club's Cardiologist said that 50% of Cavaliers had a Heart Murmur at 5-6 years of age, and those Figures are no better than they were 18 years ago.

    One of the CLUB'S Newly Appointed Health Representatives has claimed that she does not believe the Figures that the Researchers into the Cavaliers MVD Problem, and the other has said that she will not Divulge the Results of the MRI SCANS of her Cavaliers ,that they are only for Her Personal Information.

    I would think that it us Broken Hearted Cavalier Owners, who have Bought our Cavaliers in Good Faith ,who are Blameless.

    Bet

    WHY ARE SOME CAVALIER BREEDERS STILL BLINKERED?


    I have just noticed this on Rod's Web Site ,so I hope it's OK if I Quote from it.

    The Incidence of Syringomyelia in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel.

    J.E Parker.
    S.P.Knowler
    C.Rusbridge
    T.J. McKinley.
    E.Noorman
    N.D.Jeffery

    Abstract at the 23rd ECVM Symposiim September, 2010.

    Quote"

    The Epidemology of Cervicial Syringomyelia in a Population of 804 CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIELS (CKCS)was investigated using the results of a voluntary MRI screening programme that is ongoing in the United Kingdom (UK) and the Netherlands.

    The aim of this study was to establish the incidence of disease and to determine the risk factors for it's developement.

    The lifetime risk of developing Syringmyelia in the study population was estimated to be 55% .

    Of the variables investigated ,only the age at which a scan was performed significantly predicted the outcome of screening and the likelihood of detecting the disease increased with-age-at -scan up to the age of 4 years .

    The predictive accuracy of the final model was 62.4% and factors not evaluated by this study are therefore also likely to contribute to timing of disease manifestation.

    It is concluded that Syringomyelia is likely to be one of the most common disease conditions of the CKCS .

    The age at which an MRI scan is performed predicts the likelihood of disease detetection and a susceptible individual may not express the diagnostic phenotype until the age of 4 .

    Performing screening before this time may give a false negative result for the lifetime risk of disease developement."

    I don't know how to comment on this population study, but I would think it must be cause for concern for Cavalier Breeders that there could be 55% of Cavaliers at lifetime risk of developing SM.

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    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    The predicted incidence of 55% has alas been around for some time. What I found much more worrying was the sentence: 'Performing screening before this time (the age of 4) may give a false negative result for the lifetime risk of disease development." This means that an A score at 3.5, the age when successful show dogs will be widely used at stud, is no guarantee that the dog will not develop SM later - and have already passed the gene on to many puppies. That is really scary. Breeders who won't wait until 2.5 years before screening/not screening and using their breeding stock are hardly going to wait until 4.

    Come in, DNA test - we need you!

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

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    That's why scanning dogs at age 6+ is so meaningful for breeders, really giving them deeply relevant information about whether they have a line that is likely to produce early-onset syringomyelia. in many ways, it is probably more informative for breeders to MRI the parents of the dogs they want to breed, rather than the dogs they intend to breed– though of course any responsible breeder will be MRIing breeding stock. But if you have parents that are clear dogs still at age 6+, all indications are that offspring will be far less likely to develop earlier onset syrinxes.

    It's because MRIing at this age offers such valuable insight into the development of the condition in a breeder's lines, that Rupert's Fund was set up to help make those scans accessible. If breeders find that they have dogs that remain clear still at age 6, then they know those lines are the ones to focus on.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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