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Thread: The BVA/KC Scheme. A wasted feedback exercise

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    Default The BVA/KC Scheme. A wasted feedback exercise

    Up till now all Offiicial Schemes have published full results.

    In the case of the BVA/KC CMSM Scheme the Kennel Club proposed only the name of the dog and its age at scanning should be published.

    UK Cavalier Club members have been sent a paper asking for feedback on this partial publication proposal.

    There are two options 'agree' or 'disagree' and a comments box.
    The option for 'full publication' of results and for 'no publication' were not made available as options.

    Today I sent the following email to the BVA & KC with copies to the Cavalier Club and some of the animal welfare organisations.

    "As a breeder and Cavalier Club member, I am writing to register my concern about the the attached 'feedback paper' that has been sent out by the Club.

    The paper sets out the proposal for partial publication of the BVA/KC CMSM Scheme results. It has two boxes for either an agree or disagree answer. There is also a comment box.

    Although it is a welcome new development that the Cavalier Club and some of the regional cavalier breed clubs are making efforts to gauge the opinion of their members, I feel I need to point out that it would be a grave mistake to believe that any conclusions drawn from this exercise will be valid. This feedback paper does not allow for all the options available.
    There was no box for for 'full publication of results' and no box for 'no publication of results'. This leaves those members that want these options unable to express their wishes.

    To illustrate the problem, I ticked the agree box despite the fact I really want full publication. I felt that if these are really the only two options available I would prefer partial publication. I feared that if I ticked the disagree option it could be taken I did not want any sort of publication.
    In discussion with another member, who also believes that there should be full publication, it appears she ticked the disagree box because she felt partial publication was wrong.

    So, two members with the same view but who have voted in two different ways because the option of full publication is not on that feedback paper.

    The results of this exercise will inevitably be skewed and capable of being interpreted in any way that anyone feels like presenting them. The comments may give an indication of the voters' true feelings but I doubt whether they are going to feature when the results are presented.

    I fear that these results will be used to suggest that either the members want no publication of results at all ( if disagree votes are the majority ) or they have voted for partial publication ( if the agree box has the most votes )

    I am therefore writing to the Kennel Club, the BVA, and the Cavalier Club to draw to their attention that no conclusions can be drawn from this survey because the full range of options were not made available to the members.

    I had written to the Cavalier Club to highlight this problem prior to these papers being posted out, and suggested at the time that other options were added, but I had no reply and it did not happen"

    I have blogged this post. If anyone wants to see the full details of the KC proposal they are at the end of the blog.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    Hello Margaret

    It seem a typical fudge again by The K. C. and The CKCS Club by not offering the black or white option, and so I feel the full publication of results that most pet owners seek will not be given
    and therefore another chance to save the breed will be lost ,the sun has almost set .

    Is there anything non club members can so .
    Last edited by Brian M; 13th April 2011 at 12:06 PM.
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

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    Default The bva/kc scheme. A wasted feedback exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret C View Post
    Up till now all Offiicial Schemes have published full results.

    In the case of the BVA/KC CMSM Scheme the Kennel Club proposed only the name of the dog and its age at scanning should be published.

    UK Cavalier Club members have been sent a paper asking for feedback on this partial publication proposal.

    There are two options 'agree' or 'disagree' and a comments box.
    The option for 'full publication' of results and for 'no publication' were not made available as options.

    Today I sent the following email to the BVA & KC with copies to the Cavalier Club and some of the animal welfare organisations.

    "As a breeder and Cavalier Club member, I am writing to register my concern about the the attached 'feedback paper' that has been sent out by the Club.

    The paper sets out the proposal for partial publication of the BVA/KC CMSM Scheme results. It has two boxes for either an agree or disagree answer. There is also a comment box.

    Although it is a welcome new development that the Cavalier Club and some of the regional cavalier breed clubs are making efforts to gauge the opinion of their members, I feel I need to point out that it would be a grave mistake to believe that any conclusions drawn from this exercise will be valid. This feedback paper does not allow for all the options available.
    There was no box for for 'full publication of results' and no box for 'no publication of results'. This leaves those members that want these options unable to express their wishes.

    To illustrate the problem, I ticked the agree box despite the fact I really want full publication. I felt that if these are really the only two options available I would prefer partial publication. I feared that if I ticked the disagree option it could be taken I did not want any sort of publication.
    In discussion with another member, who also believes that there should be full publication, it appears she ticked the disagree box because she felt partial publication was wrong.

    So, two members with the same view but who have voted in two different ways because the option of full publication is not on that feedback paper.

    The results of this exercise will inevitably be skewed and capable of being interpreted in any way that anyone feels like presenting them. The comments may give an indication of the voters' true feelings but I doubt whether they are going to feature when the results are presented.

    I fear that these results will be used to suggest that either the members want no publication of results at all ( if disagree votes are the majority ) or they have voted for partial publication ( if the agree box has the most votes )

    I am therefore writing to the Kennel Club, the BVA, and the Cavalier Club to draw to their attention that no conclusions can be drawn from this survey because the full range of options were not made available to the members.

    I had written to the Cavalier Club to highlight this problem prior to these papers being posted out, and suggested at the time that other options were added, but I had no reply and it did not happen"

    I have blogged this post. If anyone wants to see the full details of the KC proposal they are at the end of the blog.
    THE BVA/KCSCHEME. A WASTED FEEDBACK EXCERISE.


    Could I join in here with my Comments about this CON JOB by the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE.

    There are certain Members who do not want this to be Passed, that the Results of the MRI SCANS are Publicised.

    OH YES, there is a List on the CLUB WEB SITE giving the Names of Cavaliers who have been MRI SCANNED , but not the Results of the Scans.

    Why is the Committee still hiding behind what the Kennel Club had Proposed ,but then this Proposal had to be Swiftly with-drawn when the BVA objected to it ???

    Why is the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE using it, they must know that this not what the BVA wants, so why not be Honest with the Club Members and ask Question that the BVA wants to be involved with ???

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret C View Post
    Up till now all Offiicial Schemes have published full results.

    In the case of the BVA/KC CMSM Scheme the Kennel Club proposed only the name of the dog and its age at scanning should be published.

    UK Cavalier Club members have been sent a paper asking for feedback on this partial publication proposal.

    There are two options 'agree' or 'disagree' and a comments box.
    The option for 'full publication' of results and for 'no publication' were not made available as options.

    Today I sent the following email to the BVA & KC with copies to the Cavalier Club and some of the animal welfare organisations.

    "As a breeder and Cavalier Club member, I am writing to register my concern about the the attached 'feedback paper' that has been sent out by the Club.

    The paper sets out the proposal for partial publication of the BVA/KC CMSM Scheme results. It has two boxes for either an agree or disagree answer. There is also a comment box.

    Although it is a welcome new development that the Cavalier Club and some of the regional cavalier breed clubs are making efforts to gauge the opinion of their members, I feel I need to point out that it would be a grave mistake to believe that any conclusions drawn from this exercise will be valid. This feedback paper does not allow for all the options available.
    There was no box for for 'full publication of results' and no box for 'no publication of results'. This leaves those members that want these options unable to express their wishes.

    To illustrate the problem, I ticked the agree box despite the fact I really want full publication. I felt that if these are really the only two options available I would prefer partial publication. I feared that if I ticked the disagree option it could be taken I did not want any sort of publication.
    In discussion with another member, who also believes that there should be full publication, it appears she ticked the disagree box because she felt partial publication was wrong.

    So, two members with the same view but who have voted in two different ways because the option of full publication is not on that feedback paper.

    The results of this exercise will inevitably be skewed and capable of being interpreted in any way that anyone feels like presenting them. The comments may give an indication of the voters' true feelings but I doubt whether they are going to feature when the results are presented.

    I fear that these results will be used to suggest that either the members want no publication of results at all ( if disagree votes are the majority ) or they have voted for partial publication ( if the agree box has the most votes )

    I am therefore writing to the Kennel Club, the BVA, and the Cavalier Club to draw to their attention that no conclusions can be drawn from this survey because the full range of options were not made available to the members.

    I had written to the Cavalier Club to highlight this problem prior to these papers being posted out, and suggested at the time that other options were added, but I had no reply and it did not happen"

    I have blogged this post. If anyone wants to see the full details of the KC proposal they are at the end of the blog.
    Margaret

    I couldn't agree more.
    A wasted exercise. A wasted opportunity.

    I had also written to the CKCS Club asking that full details of the proposed scheme were sent to all members. I also requested they canvas their members on PUBLICATION OF RESULTS, and that their questions were worded FAIRLY and WITHOUT BIAS.
    I also never received a reply.

    To many members what is going on with the BVA/KC CM/SM scheme is a complete mystery!! The CKCS Club have never sent out written details of the scheme to the members that are not online, never sent out any details of the seminars to those that are not online.

    As far as I am concerned, a very large proportion of members haven't got a clue whats going on with the scheme.

    So a questionnaire dropping through the letterbox doesn't mean much if you don't understand all the issues. It also doesn't contribute much if it doesn't ask the right questions.

    Maggie

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    What makes the exercise even more pointless is the BVA are never going to agree to non-publication of names and results. Why should Cavaliers be a special case? If they give way to us, then German Shepherd people could start objecting to publication of hip results, so could all the breeds that have BVA schemes for eye disease, etc, etc. It would wreck the whole business of health testing, so of course the BVA won't have it. The Cavalier Clubs can't dictate terms to the BVA, and the KC should never have raised the possibility that they could. So this silly insistence on anonymity will simply wreck the whole MRI scheme for Cavaliers. What the referendum ought to be saying (in order to be honest) is 'Do you want a BVA scheme or don't you?' A No vote would be such a bad PR exercise for the Cavalier Club that it might bring a few people to their senses.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

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    Default The bva/kc scheme .a wasted feedback exercise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kate H View Post
    What makes the exercise even more pointless is the BVA are never going to agree to non-publication of names and results. Why should Cavaliers be a special case? If they give way to us, then German Shepherd people could start objecting to publication of hip results, so could all the breeds that have BVA schemes for eye disease, etc, etc. It would wreck the whole business of health testing, so of course the BVA won't have it. The Cavalier Clubs can't dictate terms to the BVA, and the KC should never have raised the possibility that they could. So this silly insistence on anonymity will simply wreck the whole MRI scheme for Cavaliers. What the referendum ought to be saying (in order to be honest) is 'Do you want a BVA scheme or don't you?' A No vote would be such a bad PR exercise for the Cavalier Club that it might bring a few people to their senses.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

    Yes KATE , you sure have Hit the Nail on the Head with your Post.

    How has it happened that those Few Cavalier Breeders are dictating to the Majority of Cavalier Owners and those of us who Love Cavaliers,how did they get onto the Cavalier Committee and have the control of it ,what a Legacy they are going to Leave behind them for the Continuation of the Cavalier Breed.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    Yes KATE , you sure have Hit the Nail on the Head with your Post.

    How has it happened that those Few Cavalier Breeders are dictating to the Majority of Cavalier Owners and those of us who Love Cavaliers,how did they get onto the Cavalier Committee and have the control of it ,what a Legacy they are going to Leave behind them for the Continuation of the Cavalier Breed.

    Bet
    People only have 'power' if others give it to them.

    If the majority don't like what a powerful minority is doing, then they should speak out, make sure their opinion is known.
    Write a comment in the questionnaire box, write to the Clubs, write to the KC, write to the BVA.

    Apathy allows those with the strong opinions to old sway.

    Maggie

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuppenlil View Post
    Margaret

    I couldn't agree more.
    A wasted exercise. A wasted opportunity.

    I had also written to the CKCS Club asking that full details of the proposed scheme were sent to all members. I also requested they canvas their members on PUBLICATION OF RESULTS, and that their questions were worded FAIRLY and WITHOUT BIAS.
    I also never received a reply.

    To many members what is going on with the BVA/KC CM/SM scheme is a complete mystery!! The CKCS Club have never sent out written details of the scheme to the members that are not online, never sent out any details of the seminars to those that are not online.

    As far as I am concerned, a very large proportion of members haven't got a clue whats going on with the scheme.

    So a questionnaire dropping through the letterbox doesn't mean much if you don't understand all the issues. It also doesn't contribute much if it doesn't ask the right questions.

    Maggie

    I have received an identically worded voting paper from the Eastern Counties Club.
    Nothing to explain why the proposal was made. Members that do not have computersto keep themselves informed are really so disadvantaged, and discounted as members, these days.


    Quote Originally Posted by tuppenlil View Post
    People only have 'power' if others give it to them.

    If the majority don't like what a powerful minority is doing, then they should speak out, make sure their opinion is known.
    Write a comment in the questionnaire box, write to the Clubs, write to the KC, write to the BVA.

    Apathy allows those with the strong opinions to old sway.

    Maggie
    So true.

    It is being said that one of the regional clubs is in utter disarray and the Kennel Club has had to become involved. Some blatant jockeying for power led to an unlawful AGM?

    There are many really decent breeders around that are doing all they can to improve the health of cavaliers.
    Unfortunately they do not appear able or willing to stand up to the vocal minority.

    If nice people sit back and allow unscrupulous breeders to act as their spokesmen, they have only themselves to blame if they are also perceived to be uncaring and devious.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    Default The bva/kc scheme a wasted feedback exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret C View Post
    I have received an identically worded voting paper from the Eastern Counties Club.
    Nothing to explain why the proposal was made. Members that do not have computersto keep themselves informed are really so disadvantaged, and discounted as members, these days.




    So true.

    It is being said that one of the regional clubs is in utter disarray and the Kennel Club has had to become involved. Some blatant jockeying for power led to an unlawful AGM?

    There are many really decent breeders around that are doing all they can to improve the health of cavaliers.
    Unfortunately they do not appear able or willing to stand up to the vocal minority.

    If nice people sit back and allow unscrupulous breeders to act as their spokesmen, they have only themselves to blame if they are also perceived to be uncaring and devious.
    THE BVA/KC SCHEME .A WASTED FEEDBACK EXERCISE.

    The Cavalier Breed really is in Big Trouble ,it's a good job that the INTERNET can let the Lovers of Cavaliers know what is going on with this Powerful Minority who have taken over .

    Unfortunately it's the Cavaliers who are going to Suffer.

    I just can't understand what is behind this Vocal Powerful Minority's Attitude ,are they not Interested in the SM and MVD Problems in our Beloved Cavaliers.

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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    Default The bva/kc scheme .a wasted feedback exercise

    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    THE BVA/KC SCHEME .A WASTED FEEDBACK EXERCISE.

    The Cavalier Breed really is in Big Trouble ,it's a good job that the INTERNET can let the Lovers of Cavaliers know what is going on with this Powerful Minority who have taken over .

    Unfortunately it's the Cavaliers who are going to Suffer.

    I just can't understand what is behind this Vocal Powerful Minority's Attitude ,are they not Interested in the SM and MVD Problems in our Beloved Cavaliers.

    Bet

    THE BVA/KC SCHEME .A WASTED FEEDBACK EXERCISE.

    I forgot to ask this Question once more, why was the Proposal from the KC so Hurredly Withdrawn from the UK CKCS CLUB'S WEB SITE ,after the BVA made Such Strong Objections to the Wording of it.

    Why are the Various CKCS CLUBS still insisting on using the KC's Proposal on the Voting Slips about this , when the BVA is so against it?

    Why was it ever Issued by the CKCS CLUBS when the BVA have strong Objections to it's Wording ,and are blaming the KC for going giving out this Proposal when the BVA does not agree with it ?

    Bet
    Bet (Hargreaves)

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