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Thread: Prednisone

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    Default Prednisone

    Owner treating your cavaliers with steroids, have you notices your cavalier becoming more aggressive?

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    Ella was on prednisone and I did not notice aggression at all. I have not heard of that causing aggression.

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    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

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    Quote Originally Posted by anniemac View Post
    Ella was on prednisone and I did not notice aggression at all. I have not heard of that causing aggression.

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    Luka is getting slowly weaned off of it and is a little too "short" with Atlas for my liking, I rarely have to discipline him but he got a stern talking too for bumping his brother today.

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    I've heard of this, particularly in males, but I think it is fairly uncommon. Checked Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook (the veterinary drug "Bible") and it mentions:

    "behavioral changes (depression, lethargy, viciousness)" in one section and under "CNS/Autonomic Nervous System" it includes "alter mood and behavior" under the list of symptoms. I think it is fairly dose dependent, as it says that "With the exception of PU/PD/PP, adverse effects associated with antiinflammatory therapy are relatively uncommon. Adverse effects associated with immunosuppressive doses are more common and potentially more severe." On another page it says "Adverse effects are generally associated with long-term administration of these drugs, especially if given at high dosages or not on an alternate day regimen."

    Is Luka taking steroids? If so, at what dosage and what does he weigh?

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    I've heard of this, particularly in males, but I think it is fairly uncommon. Checked Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook (the veterinary drug "Bible") and it mentions:

    "behavioral changes (depression, lethargy, viciousness)" in one section and under "CNS/Autonomic Nervous System" it includes "alter mood and behavior" under the list of symptoms. I think it is fairly dose dependent, as it says that "With the exception of PU/PD/PP, adverse effects associated with antiinflammatory therapy are relatively uncommon. Adverse effects associated with immunosuppressive doses are more common and potentially more severe." On another page it says "Adverse effects are generally associated with long-term administration of these drugs, especially if given at high dosages or not on an alternate day regimen."

    Is Luka taking steroids? If so, at what dosage and what does he weigh?

    Pat
    He's taking it for the SM and is down to 5mg every day, soon he will go to every other day. I just noticed he got more snippy with Atlas. He's 22 lbs.

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    I would not punish him (and generally disagree with corrections anyway, which mostly dogs do not understand or understand in the context in which owners try to use them-- as is pretty clear when you watch TV trainers! Management and positive approaches are more productive ). I'd especially not punish an SM dog as so much behaviour can be attributed to pain/discomfort/meds. In short you are punishing him for having his condition if you punish him for snapping because of it. Punishing really does nothing at all to address this and may only worsen the issue with the affected dog or make him more withdrawn.

    If he is coming off preds then perhaps he is feeling more pain. Perhaps your other dog seems threatening for approaching -- a painful dog is going to be more defensive. Perhaps your other dog has bumped into him, even in play, and is now therefore seen as a threat of potential pain.

    Many people find they need to separate and manage their dogs differently when one has SM or any chronic pain condition/illness.Some people do face some serious decisions when they have multiple dogs around one with a condition like SM. I know of cases where other dogs have needed to be rehomed. It can just be increasingly hard for an affected dog to deal with other dogs in the home behaving like normal dogs and not knowing the affected dog is in pain. Hence the need for thoughtful management to try to avoid rehomings if at all possible, if problems begn to be seen. .

    There def. can be some psychological issues on preds but they are not common and especially not with such short term, comparitively low level treatment as Luka has had. I'd think it more likely that the lower dose may not be enough to address his level of pain, or that there may be more pain while his body adjusts to trying to reboot producing cortisol (what preds replaces) or to a lower level of preds.

    I have found that each time I lower my own preds dose I have a week or so of increased pain (as a matter of fact, am dealing with that right now... it does tend to improve as the body adjusts to the lower level but I'd think not perhaps with a pain condition like SM as opposed to an inflammatory condition).
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    I would not punish him (and generally disagree with corrections anyway, which mostly dogs do not understand or understand in the context in which owners try to use them-- as is pretty clear when you watch TV trainers! Management and positive approaches are more productive ). I'd especially not punish an SM dog as so much behaviour can be attributed to pain/discomfort/meds. In short you are punishing him for having his condition if you punish him for snapping because of it. Punishing really does nothing at all to address this and may only worsen the issue with the affected dog or make him more withdrawn.

    If he is coming off preds then perhaps he is feeling more pain. Perhaps your other dog seems threatening for approaching -- a painful dog is going to be more defensive. Perhaps your other dog has bumped into him, even in play, and is now therefore seen as a threat of potential pain.

    Many people find they need to separate and manage their dogs differently when one has SM or any chronic pain condition/illness.Some people do face some serious decisions when they have multiple dogs around one with a condition like SM. I know of cases where other dogs have needed to be rehomed. It can just be increasingly hard for an affected dog to deal with other dogs in the home behaving like normal dogs and not knowing the affected dog is in pain. Hence the need for thoughtful management to try to avoid rehomings if at all possible, if problems begn to be seen. .

    There def. can be some psychological issues on preds but they are not common and especially not with such short term, comparitively low level treatment as Luka has had. I'd think it more likely that the lower dose may not be enough to address his level of pain, or that there may be more pain while his body adjusts to trying to reboot producing cortisol (what preds replaces) or to a lower level of preds.

    I have found that each time I lower my own preds dose I have a week or so of increased pain (as a matter of fact, am dealing with that right now... it does tend to improve as the body adjusts to the lower level but I'd think not perhaps with a pain condition like SM as opposed to an inflammatory condition).
    I wouldn't call what I do punishment, I've put in a lot of work teaching my dogs to the extent that they know what inappropriate means.

    I can't say I agree with you, because even if the medication is affecting him, that is no excuse for bad behaviour. There is no way bad behaviour is going to be tolerated in our house, I don't care how sick he is. Our "punishments" aren't severe, a stern talking too, a time out in the crate.

    Luka eventually walked over to Atlas and gave him a lick on the nose. He has been more aggressive, he never used to growl at chickens, or bark at birds. It's a little strange seeing him so out of character since his medication regiment started.

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    I think maybe you need to talk to your neurologist and/or your vet on the link between pain and behaviour and I will guarantee you they will advise against 'correcting' (as the totally misleading verb of choice seems to be) for behaviour caused by pain -- animals have a protective instinct triggered by pain and cannot just decide like a human to manage their response to try to be nice. I am really sorry you hold these views but in this case I think this is dangerously wrong and could lead to sad and serous problems for both your dogs. I would hope you would rethink. Good trainers always require owners of behaviour-issue/aggressive dogs to have them medically checked FIRST before even considering this as a training issue (and it would not be an issue for corrections, ever, if caused by pain or medications). Then the advice is always to treat the pain -- not to embark on a course of punishment based dog training.

    You are a medical professional -- would you scold or slap a sick child in severe pain for inappropriate or impolite behaviour? You have a dog with one of the most painful conditions known in medicine, showing severe symptoms, with a syrinx running down much of his spine, whose pain has so far NOT been fully addressed by his meds. I would surely be gentler on him than to punish him for reacting to another dog.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Riley has been on 5 mg of prednisone a day for three years and has never shown any signs of aggression whatsoever. She is the most layed back dog I have ever seen. Don't know if that's from the prednisone or not. She's quite a bit smaller than Luka also - she weighs 12 pounds!
    Bev
    Oliver (blenheim, born 3/2001), Riley (black & tan, born 8/2002,), Madison (ruby, born 9/2003), and Oz (tri-color, born 7/2007)

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    Goda, have you tried replacement therapy to modify any unwanted behaviour? I trained my pups to generally learn the rules of the house by giving them a toy to distract their attention when they misbehaved. Rebel is getting on for 9 and will still bring me a toy if he even thinks he might have done something wrong.

    This worked with all my dogs except for Winston Alexander, who makes his own rules. I let most things go with him because his transgressions are trivial and not too often. Anyway, he makes me laugh
    Warmest wishes
    Flo & the ByFloSin Cavaliers
    Rebel, Winston Alexander,Little Joe & Holly Poppet
    Birmingham, UK

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