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Thread: Article in Dogworld re:proposed BVA/KC CM/SM scheme.

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    Default Article in Dogworld re:proposed BVA/KC CM/SM scheme.

    I haven't had a chance to read it yet,but here's the link to it.

    http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/37-Publication


    Sins

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    Hi Sins

    And thank you I had not seen it .Is this good news or bad for my prime herd of Canadian Holstein Dairy Cattle ,do so hope
    we are not think of out crossing as I havent got enough room .
    Cavaliers x Holsteins = ttp://biblioteca.sp.san.gva.es/biblioteca/publicaciones/MATERIAL/METABUSQUEDAS/MUJER_INFANTIL/9201594.PDF

    I wonder why it was filmed is there no trust with each other .?
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

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    I've had a quick look through it Brian.
    I'm not sure why they'd film it really.Surely a transcript of discussions would have been sufficient but however..
    yes,there are positives.
    The fact that there's support for a scheme and that it will go ahead.
    It's good that an explanation will be provided for those accessing the results on the database,especially on how to interpret the gradings of both parents and the conclusions which can and cannot be drawn from the data,although it seems,that as yet has to be discussed and hopefully will be carried out to the satisfaction of the breeders who will be publicising their scans.
    It's very good to see that scans which have been done on a dog prior to the scheme will be included on the dog's record as "scanned prior to scheme",even if not formally graded.Breeders who have been scanning for years deserve this as a minimum,in recognition of their contribution to the greater knowledge and understanding of SM.
    However the 100 to have a perfectly compliant scan(which has already been paid for and read according to the informal grading scheme) regraded,is a bit steep.
    I know of breeders who had cavaliers rescanned last year at different venues, in order to have compliant scans ready to include when the new scheme kicked off.Having already paid to have a dog scanned and read twice,they'll now face a bill of 100 to have it regraded before it can be included in the scheme.Tough luck if you've scanned a dozen then..
    But I suppose there has to be a starting point somewhere and hopefully it'll lead to a reduced rate of SM in the breed over the next few generations.
    Once the scheme commences,I think we owe it to the breeders to give them support and understanding when results may not be what they wish for,if they have the courage to publicise their results then they need the patience and understanding of the pet buying public and also their fellow breeders.
    Sins

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    Quote Originally Posted by sins View Post
    I've had a quick look through it Brian.
    I'm not sure why they'd film it really.Surely a transcript of discussions would have been sufficient but however..


    The KC said they wanted a record in case anything was quoted out of context.


    Quote Originally Posted by sins View Post
    However the 100 to have a perfectly compliant scan(which has already been paid for and read according to the informal grading scheme) regraded,is a bit steep.
    I know of breeders who had cavaliers rescanned last year at different venues, in order to have compliant scans ready to include when the new scheme kicked off.Having already paid to have a dog scanned and read twice,they'll now face a bill of 100 to have it regraded before it can be included in the scheme.Tough luck if you've scanned a dozen then..
    But I suppose there has to be a starting point somewhere and hopefully it'll lead to a reduced rate of SM in the breed over the next few generations.


    All the official health schemes have a panel of experts & an appeals procedure. Some breeders have been saying for years they wanted a standardised scheme with more than one scrutineer. Specialists cannot be expected to give up time for free.

    There does have to be a starting point and this will be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sins View Post
    Once the scheme commences,I think we owe it to the breeders to give them support and understanding when results may not be what they wish for,if they have the courage to publicise their results then they need the patience and understanding of the pet buying public and also their fellow breeders.
    Sins
    If breeders publicise their results and breed to whatever guidelines are suggested then they will deserve gratitude and support from everyone, because they will be contributing towards a healthier future for cavaliers.

    The scans submitted and verified through this scheme will allow a 'robust' EBV project to go forward.
    Sarah Blott produced a paper for this meeting that spelt out quite clearly that up to now relatively few scan results had been received from breeders directly, and that those that had been sent in appeared to be biased towards good results.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    Default This would certainly be an interesting outcross

    From the Dog World article......

    “In the absence of Sarah Blott of the Animal Health Trust, KC geneticist Prof Jeff Sampson gave a talk on estimated breeding values (EBVs). This was followed by a member’s presentation which stated that EBVs were nothing new, and in fact the member had been using them for over 25 years.
    “Having asked Dr Sampson to concur that in the absence of a genetic marker EBVs were the next best thing, it was pointed out that publication of the data had no effect on the EBV calculations and was therefore superfluous to the calculation of EBVs. It was demonstrated that in farm livestock, the data was sent to the owner for his use. The EBVs were calculated and the owner would then advertise his cream of the crop, leaving out the failures."

    I was at the meeting which, on the whole, was well organised and expertly chaired by Steve Dean, the KC Chairman.

    It did become a bit surreal when, as described above, one of the health representatives hijacked the meeting to present his own lecture on sheep EBVs, complete with diagrams and books with photographs of prize winning rams.

    The KC and veterinary representatives appeared at first bemused and then amused. One highly qualified gentleman appeared unable to stop his shoulders shaking with laughter.
    As someone remarked to me, that could be an interesting new designer breed............Cavalambs

    “Profs Herrtage, Dean and Sampson all considered that this information was irrelevant, as the scheme under discussion was to eradicate disease and not to improve the yield of meat and milk, as was the case in sheep and cattle. The member pointed out that the Blup programme used in EBV calculations was more than capable of evaluating any data fed into it and there was no basic difference in the calculation of EBVs for a disease as opposed to, say increased milk yield."

    I struggled, not only with disbelieve, but to try and understand the relevance of this seemingly rather egotistical lecture on the speaker's sheep rearing successes, but later I realised this was somehow being advanced as an argument against publishing MRI scan results!

    Someone has since suggested that this was not only this person's view but he was also putting it forward with the agreement of the Cavalier Health Liaison Committee.
    Please tell me that's not true.


    The Dog World Comment column is not on-line, so I thought I would type out what they wrote about the cavalier club representatives' reluctance to publish health results.


    "It is good that progress has been made on the development of a testing scheme for syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. It is essential that the breed not only does its utmost to deal with this issue but is seen to do so.
    Perhaps we are missing something but we do not understand the reluctance of the breed representatives to accept the publication of test results. We suspect that those in other breeds which have had to deal with health issues will not understand it either.
    In all other official schemes, publication is accepted as essential part of the equation, enabling future breeders to make more informed decisions in the quest for fewer problems in each subsequent generation.
    Why should the Cavaliers be any different?
    Unless there is some issue of which we are unaware, it is hard to follow any objections to this, and the Kennel Club & British Veterinary Association are right to take a firm line.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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