Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Trustability of Online Puppy Calculators (projected Adult Dog size)

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,435
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncy View Post
    At the end of the day, I think the most important thing is that our beloved Cavaliers are as healthy and happy as can be! Good health and happiness are going to forever be blind to the size of our dogs
    I couldn't agree more! By the way, I looked at the pictures of Chauncy, and he is adorable.
    Joyce - Proudly owned & loved by

    BellaMia (Aug. 30, 2012) My Beautiful Ruby Milo (Jan. 20, 2014) My Handsome Tri
    Sydney (
    April 16, 2000~April 4, 2012) Always and Forever In My Heart

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    23,993
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    The link posted at the very start of this thread, which goes to a post here on the board, isn't an online calculator but the advice of a longtime cavalier breeder. People often want to have some sort of estimate of size, and as she notes very clearly, you really can only make a very broad guess but she gives a rough way of making a prediction and I think most of us have found it is roughly accurate when it comes to puppies we've owned!

    Cavaliers come in all sorts of sizes. The breed standard is 12 to 18 pounds in the UK and Ireland, and 13 to 18 pounds in the US–generally one or the other in other countries. That said, the standard is primarily the standard for show purposes, and often dogs will be over that size, and some will be undersized (though this is definitely less common). Also many and perhaps most of the males in the show ring seem to be at least a pound or 2 over breed standard and several breeders that I've talked to over time say they would never use males that fall into the lower to middle areas of the breed standard as they think this produces males that are too slight for showing. In other words, it would be very common to find male show dogs over the breed standard. Perhaps time to change the breed standard– it would be pretty unusual to see dogs being shown that are down at the smaller end of the breed standard so maybe it makes more sense for the size to start at 14 or 15 pounds and go up into the low 20s. There is also an ongoing debate about whether breeding for small size creates more health problems. It is known that miniaturizing breeds into toy size creates a range of health issues that are particular to that process.

    I've come across plenty of cavaliers that weigh 25 to 30 pounds, and a handful that are even larger than that. A variety of breeds were used to reconstruct the breed way back at the start of the last century, and depending on the line, it is said these include cockers and even springers and that every now and then, some puppies will throw back to those larger sizes. We had a member here with a cavalier that was in the mid to high 30 pound range or maybe even low 40s, and the largest one that I had come in to rescue over the years was probably in the mid-30s–a big boy, but quite fit and a very beautiful blenheim! It has also said that some less reputable breeders and puppy farmers will use a springer to produce larger litter sizes as cavaliers typically have fairly small litters.

    As some have noted, perhaps one of the biggest problems owners face is that whatever the healthy size is for a given cavalier, most cavaliers themselves would prefer to be much larger–as in, they would like to eat themselves into obesity! In common with a handful of other breeds -- and therefore perhaps it's a genetic issue–the breed as a whole does not seem to have any shut off point for eating food once they hit adulthood and with rare exceptions, they easily become overweight and should never be left to free feed or to eat as much as they want.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    268
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    I meant more the actual size, rather than the standard set by the various clubs and organisations.
    The standards as set by the various bodies are rather consistent, but seem fairly outdated in comparison to the average
    size of your general 'family pet' of the breed.
    Those standards read more like show dog requirements. Would be interesting to see how many furry buddies here are within the
    'standards', and where they are from.

    dozyrosy, do you have any photos of your big beautiful boy? Would love to see him.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    California, U.S.
    Posts
    39
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Thank you so much!

    Oh boy, I just joined and I love this site already! I believe that as owners and breeders are going to be my best bet for information compared to reading books and online articles. Thank you very much for sharing what you know with me. I appreciate it so, so much.

    I will remember that much like a goldfish, adult Cavaliers will just eat as long as food is kept out, so I'll be extra diligent about feeding times and taking the food away (if any is left) promptly. Thank you so much Karlin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    The link posted at the very start of this thread, which goes to a post here on the board, isn't an online calculator but the advice of a longtime cavalier breeder. People often want to have some sort of estimate of size, and as she notes very clearly, you really can only make a very broad guess but she gives a rough way of making a prediction and I think most of us have found it is roughly accurate when it comes to puppies we've owned!

    Cavaliers come in all sorts of sizes. The breed standard is 12 to 18 pounds in the UK and Ireland, and 13 to 18 pounds in the US–generally one or the other in other countries. That said, the standard is primarily the standard for show purposes, and often dogs will be over that size, and some will be undersized (though this is definitely less common). Also many and perhaps most of the males in the show ring seem to be at least a pound or 2 over breed standard and several breeders that I've talked to over time say they would never use males that fall into the lower to middle areas of the breed standard as they think this produces males that are too slight for showing. In other words, it would be very common to find male show dogs over the breed standard. Perhaps time to change the breed standard– it would be pretty unusual to see dogs being shown that are down at the smaller end of the breed standard so maybe it makes more sense for the size to start at 14 or 15 pounds and go up into the low 20s. There is also an ongoing debate about whether breeding for small size creates more health problems. It is known that miniaturizing breeds into toy size creates a range of health issues that are particular to that process.

    I've come across plenty of cavaliers that weigh 25 to 30 pounds, and a handful that are even larger than that. A variety of breeds were used to reconstruct the breed way back at the start of the last century, and depending on the line, it is said these include cockers and even springers and that every now and then, some puppies will throw back to those larger sizes. We had a member here with a cavalier that was in the mid to high 30 pound range or maybe even low 40s, and the largest one that I had come in to rescue over the years was probably in the mid-30s–a big boy, but quite fit and a very beautiful blenheim! It has also said that some less reputable breeders and puppy farmers will use a springer to produce larger litter sizes as cavaliers typically have fairly small litters.

    As some have noted, perhaps one of the biggest problems owners face is that whatever the healthy size is for a given cavalier, most cavaliers themselves would prefer to be much larger–as in, they would like to eat themselves into obesity! In common with a handful of other breeds -- and therefore perhaps it's a genetic issue–the breed as a whole does not seem to have any shut off point for eating food once they hit adulthood and with rare exceptions, they easily become overweight and should never be left to free feed or to eat as much as they want.
    Mama to little Chauncy

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    23,993
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JessieAndMe View Post
    I meant more the actual size, rather than the standard set by the various clubs and organisations.
    The standards as set by the various bodies are rather consistent, but seem fairly outdated in comparison to the average
    size of your general 'family pet' of the breed.
    Those standards read more like show dog requirements. Would be interesting to see how many furry buddies here are within the
    'standards', and where they are from.
    Well, any cavalier should really fall pretty close to the breed standard with only occasional dogs going well beyond it –that is the guideline for how the breed should appear and it is pretty consistent all around the world for this particular breed . Any show breeder will consistently produce some dogs that fall over the breed standard, and occasionally some that fall just under–it's simply the law of averages.

    I have had 5 Cavaliers and all of them were/are within breed standard, from 12 pounds up to 17, but I also ran the Irish cavalier breed rescue for many years, and In that time, rehomed a couple of hundred Cavaliers–a lot of dogs, from all different backgrounds. I would say that at least half were somewhat over breed standard in weight (between 1 to 10 pounds, say. Only a couple were really big boys or girls though!).
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default


    As some have noted, perhaps one of the biggest problems owners face is that whatever the healthy size is for a given cavalier, most cavaliers themselves would prefer to be much larger–as in, they would like to eat themselves into obesity! In common with a handful of other breeds -- and therefore perhaps it's a genetic issue–the breed as a whole does not seem to have any shut off point for eating food once they hit adulthood and with rare exceptions, they easily become overweight and should never be left to free feed or to eat as much as they want.
    I find this really interesting... Lyra is an absolute vacuum cleaner when it comes to food. It's hard to train her to do tricks because whenever she smells treats, she goes batshit crazy! Such a change from my Papillon, who refuses to eat anything until he's positively starving. He was always like that--very picky with food and very skinny, especially when he was a puppy and still growing. Many of my Papillon owner friends also have trouble keeping weight on their dogs because they are just so picky with food in general.

    The people I know who own Cavaliers and other breeds like Labs and Beagles, on the other hand, have to hide their food really well if they want to avoid their food being stolen, lol.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    575
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lucidity View Post
    I find this really interesting... Lyra is an absolute vacuum cleaner when it comes to food. It's hard to train her to do tricks because whenever she smells treats, she goes batshit crazy!
    My pup was that way. I always had to feed him BEFORE training him. Seemed to take the edge off just a little. He would get so excited over the treat that he could not focus on what he was supposed to do in order to get the treat. Finally I stopped using treats as a reward. He got toys and praise instead. Now that he is 1 1/2 food is still a major issue for him. We have to be very careful even with tiny crumbs on the kitchen floor. It's almost like he has a completely different personality around food.
    Flash Blitz Holly

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reptigirl View Post
    My pup was that way. I always had to feed him BEFORE training him. Seemed to take the edge off just a little. He would get so excited over the treat that he could not focus on what he was supposed to do in order to get the treat. Finally I stopped using treats as a reward. He got toys and praise instead. Now that he is 1 1/2 food is still a major issue for him. We have to be very careful even with tiny crumbs on the kitchen floor. It's almost like he has a completely different personality around food.
    Same thing here! I always train Lyra right after I've fed her breakfast, but she STILL goes crazy. -__-"" Nowadays I wait till she's sleepy and tired, haha. I also tried not using treats and toys instead but she wasn't interested! She's pretty hard to train because she has a really short attention span, and that span gets even shorter when there's food around, lol.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Newbury, Berks, UK
    Posts
    44
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JessieAndMe View Post
    I meant more the actual size, rather than the standard set by the various clubs and organisations.
    The standards as set by the various bodies are rather consistent, but seem fairly outdated in comparison to the average
    size of your general 'family pet' of the breed.
    Those standards read more like show dog requirements. Would be interesting to see how many furry buddies here are within the
    'standards', and where they are from.
    I think Karlin's covered this, but what I was trying to put across is that most reputable breeders are endeavouring to produce Cavaliers within the breed standard whether they turn out to be show dogs or not - their aim is to produce dogs that conform, but nature can play tricks... So you should expect to see most Cavaliers within the weight range set down by the standards regardless of where they live. But pet owners will generally end up with the dogs who because of some "fault" will not be close enough to the standard to be shown, and that will include the very big ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessieAndMe View Post
    dozyrosy, do you have any photos of your big beautiful boy? Would love to see him.
    Barney was my first Cavalier, I got him in 1984 and he was put to sleep in 1995. Most of the pictures I have of him are old photos which I've not scanned in to my PC, but here's one of him sitting in his chair. He was a really bonny boy - he was built short and wide and according to my BIL he had a back "like a side of bacon" and his leg bones were like chunky little tree trunks. He was very definitely not designed to be a dainty lap dog - though that was always his favourite place to be...



    Rosemary

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    California, U.S.
    Posts
    39
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Bless Barney's heart

    Awwww... bless Barney's little heart. That is a very precious photo of him. I'm quite sure you think of him often and that your heart still has very many happy memories of him and his ways.

    Not a dainty lapdog, huh? You're funny! I guess though they may not be the size of lapdogs, as the loving Cavaliers that they are, I'm quite sure that they always feel like they are lapdogs any old how. I love how the brown around his eyes look like little goggles. Though I am not as well seasoned as many members here as a Cavalier owner, by the looks of the way the color of the brown is around Barney's eyes, I think that's how Chauncy may look when he gets a little older. I have yet to figure out how much of the brown is going to "spread out."

    Thank you for sharing the picture of Barney with us Rosemary.

    Quote Originally Posted by dozyrosy View Post
    I think Karlin's covered this, but what I was trying to put across is that most reputable breeders are endeavouring to produce Cavaliers within the breed standard whether they turn out to be show dogs or not - their aim is to produce dogs that conform, but nature can play tricks... So you should expect to see most Cavaliers within the weight range set down by the standards regardless of where they live. But pet owners will generally end up with the dogs who because of some "fault" will not be close enough to the standard to be shown, and that will include the very big ones.



    Barney was my first Cavalier, I got him in 1984 and he was put to sleep in 1995. Most of the pictures I have of him are old photos which I've not scanned in to my PC, but here's one of him sitting in his chair. He was a really bonny boy - he was built short and wide and according to my BIL he had a back "like a side of bacon" and his leg bones were like chunky little tree trunks. He was very definitely not designed to be a dainty lap dog - though that was always his favourite place to be...



    Rosemary
    Mama to little Chauncy

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •