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Thread: Will the next SM breeding protocol be BAD FOR THE BREED?

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    Default Will the next SM breeding protocol be BAD FOR THE BREED?

    A preliminary draft of the BVA/KCs' upcoming new SM breeding protocol suggests that cavaliers as young as 12 months of age may be bred. This would contradict the MVD breeding protocol, which sets 2.5 years as the minimum breeding age. Read about it and its consequences at http://cavalierhealth.org/editorial....ember_24,_2011
    Rod Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodRussell View Post
    A preliminary draft of the BVA/KCs' upcoming new SM breeding protocol suggests that cavaliers as young as 12 months of age may be bred. This would contradict the MVD breeding protocol, which sets 2.5 years as the minimum breeding age. Read about it and its consequences at http://cavalierhealth.org/editorial....ember_24,_2011
    I hope you are wrong and misunderstanding the protocol.
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

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    Rod one thing you quoted was breeders thought 36 months was too old, then a star saying they think 2 years is too young which is 24 months? I dont how you came to that? I think 1-3 years is a large range. You could argue 2 1/2 is too young without parents being heart clear over 5?

    The whole point is to eliminate early onset (I feel). I'm on phone so I could be reading wrong.

    PS for SM protocol, I would love to see how grandparents scanned also add benefit. Some breeders already have this which i think personally is a plus. Maybe one day
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

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    I think it's not good for the breed at this time to change the guidelines,even though it takes into account the progressive nature of syringomyelia.
    The real problem is not that it permits breeding of young stock,the major flaw is the reliance on the over 5 clears,for anything with a central canal dilatation or a syrinx up to 4.9 years old.
    If you wish to breed from a young bitch between the ages of 1 and 3 years old and you find a dilated central canal(no matter how miniscule),you must use a stud dog over 5 with or without central canal dilatation...
    Anyone know where all those over 5 clear dogs are ?
    Answers on the back of a postage stamp please...
    Sins

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    Quote Originally Posted by anniemac View Post
    ...then a star saying they think 2 years is too young which is 24 months?
    The star (*asterisk) says they think 2 years is too old, not too young.
    Rod Russell

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    I will say, I like how it includes to not breed any dogs with clinical signs of cm and/or sm.
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

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    Well maybe since its preliminary, I hope some of these things will be addressed.
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

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    Quote Originally Posted by anniemac View Post
    Well maybe since its preliminary, I hope some of these things will be addressed.
    One of my concerns is that the BVA/KC SM protocol will not be breed-specific. For some reason, they are lumping all breeds with seemingly genetic SM into one group. (I think this is a mistake, because I view SM in the cavalier to be totally CM-connected, while a lot of SM in other breeds, including the BG, has no connection to CM, even though the SM protocol may work for the BG and other breeds as well.)

    By treating their SM protocol as being a species-wide solution, BVA/KC may end up ignoring the unique problem of early-onset MVD in the cavalier. I just hope that BVA/KC recognizes the need to add an asterisk for the CKCS, to the effect that the minimum age should be 2.5 years and not 1.0 years.
    Rod Russell

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    Also, see Colin Driver's and Holger Volk's editorial in the December 24 issue of Veterinary Record (at http://clarerusbridge-news.blogspot.com/), in which they state:

    "The authors note that the correct age for scanning remains contentious and also represents a practical issue for breeders. It seems there is a higher risk for breeding a dog with syringomyelia from young unaffected dogs than from those aged over 2.5 years, so having one parent from this older cohort in the breeding match may be a reasonable way forward."

    This statement suggests they also support using cavaliers under the age of 2.5 years. Now, maybe they were not focused on MVD in cavaliers when they wrote this editorial, but it seems that neither were the BVA and the UK Kennel Club when they drafted the proposed SM guidelines (at http://cavalierhealth.org/images/pro...guidelines.bmp).

    The wording of the Driver/Volk editorial indicates they think further compromises are "a reasonable way forward". This is not the language of genetics. It is the language of politics.
    Rod Russell

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    Rod, the existing recommended guidelines do not say anywhere that dogs must be over 2.5 to be bred. Clare Rusbridge has repeatedly stated the guidelines are in response to breeders' own requests and must recognise that many breeders choose for their own (and I think terribly misguided) reasons to breed dogs, especially stud dogs, at under that age. There has never been a set of SM protocols/guidelines which says cavaliers should only be bred at older than 2.5. Under the current guidleines (I do not think Clare has ever called them a 'protocol' because that's a more formal construct, though many people use the term casually), dogs under 2.5 that scan without a syrinx or symptoms should only be bred to A graded dogs (eg dogs scanned and graded at 2.5 or older with an A grade as they cannot get an A grade at younger than that). Then those younger dogs should be rescanned at age 2.5 for a grade.

    Clare has made clear many times that it is preferable that dogs be old enough to be scanned and graded before mating because many will have SM appear by 2.5, and also because it helpfully fits with the existing MVD protocol -- but has tried to shape guidelines that give some response to what many breeders actually do -- sadly, they continue to breed dogs underage to the MVD protocol. If they are insisting on doing that then at least in terms of SM, they should select mates that are A graded -- but I think the reality is that those breeders who breed below the MVD protocol don;t care a whole lot about health anyway and aren;t going to bother with SM guidelines either.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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