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Thread: Only the sire MRI tested?

  1. #11
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    I would not say having only one parent scanned means the breeder is not responsible but I would personally want both parents scanned even know the status of the grandparents.

    The reason I say that is because they technically could be following the SM protocol at the time. I know in the USA of well meaning breeders that have used a sire scanned over 5 A to an unscanned bitch (I hate that word). The problem with this is what Karlin mentioned of it could lead to popular sire syndrome.

    I just want to say just because only one parent is scanned does not mean the breeder is not responsible. Sins said she knew of some breeders with both scanned so I would get with her if that's what you are looking for.

    I don't know about genetics but I have heard both sides. A scanned older stud clear could be valuable to those unscanned because the could (how do I say it) produce more. However as Karlin said the problem could lead to popular sire.

    I have read that some breeders would want the bitch status known because if they did have SM and were not symptomatic they do not know what the pregnancy would do. (would it be hard on them or then be symptomatic).

    Either way, I would want the status known on both because of recent studies and having a cavalier with SM. I don't know why only one scanned in UK but I do know that researching and finding a puppy is so important. I would want to get to know the breeder and I'm sure they would too. It's such a big addition.

    Good luck on your search
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

  2. #12
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    I have no idea what the study giving the 80/20 percent figures is. I got the information a couple of years ago from a friend who went on various KC or KC approved courses for judges. I will try to get more information if she has it.
    Warmest wishes
    Flo & the ByFloSin Cavaliers
    Rebel, Winston Alexander,Little Joe & Holly Poppet
    Birmingham, UK

  3. #13
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    Let me add that far more are not scanning at all in the USA and I don't feel that because of this that only one scanned is enough. However, I hope more and more do scan so we know more history.
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

  4. #14
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    Hi Anne, Thanks so much for your input. I appreciate what your saying. Not having a lot of experience with the breed and reading all I can get my hands on with tons and tons more to learn, all I know at this point is that I want to give my pup the best chance at a happy, healthy and pain free life. So to me that means having both parents (and yes, grandparents too if I can) scanned.

    I can see that things are changing rapidly and that protocol seems to be changing so maybe not all breeders are doing the same.

    You guys are great and I am learning a great deal from you, thank you again!
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion".
    Author: Taken from a LO done by Too Scrappy

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by anniemac View Post
    Let me add that far more are not scanning at all in the USA and I don't feel that because of this that only one scanned is enough. However, I hope more and more do scan so we know more history.

    That's good to know since eventually we will be back in the US. It would be nice to get more on board for scanning both.
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion".
    Author: Taken from a LO done by Too Scrappy

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim N View Post
    I am also seeing lots of adds saying the dams are scanned but no mention of the sire just saying to me that they aren't as careful about the sire they are breeding with. ...
    If you are looking randomly at breeder websites, they probably are mentioning only bitches being scanned because they don't have males. However, if they are referring specifically to the sire and dam of a litter on the ground, then I think it is a plus that the dams have been scanned. See, e.g., this article from June 2011: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/editor...June_13,_2011:

    It probably should go without saying, but keep in mind that "just" scanning a cavalier is meaningless. Important points are the age of the dog when scanned, and, of course, the results of the scan.
    Rod Russell

  7. #17
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    Thanks Rod, I am keeping those points in mind. So far of the few I have sent questions to I am not getting full answers. ie when asked the age of parents I am getting some answers to other questions but no answer to that so just moving on. In the end I won't just be taking the fact that they are scanned but will be wanting to see the certificates.

    Off to read the article you just posted...
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion".
    Author: Taken from a LO done by Too Scrappy

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim N View Post
    ... So far of the few I have sent questions to I am not getting full answers. ie when asked the age of parents I am getting some answers to other questions but no answer to that so just moving on. In the end I won't just be taking the fact that they are scanned but will be wanting to see the certificates. ...
    That reminds me of cavalier breeders who will advertise that their breeding stock has been OFA-certified to be clear of mitral valve disease (MVD), but when you look at the actual certificates you will find that the examining veterinarian was not a cardiologist, or that the dog was certified when it was, say, 18 months old, etc. Such OFA certifications are worthless.
    Rod Russell

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim N View Post
    Thanks Rod, I am keeping those points in mind. So far of the few I have sent questions to I am not getting full answers. ie when asked the age of parents I am getting some answers to other questions but no answer to that so just moving on. In the end I won't just be taking the fact that they are scanned but will be wanting to see the certificates.

    Off to read the article you just posted...
    Thank you for what you are doing. Puppy buyers like you are so important to the future of the breed.

    We need buyers ask questions about health testing and walk away when the breeder does not have certificates that show they have followed the health protocols.
    So many breeders are uncaring about the health of the dogs they breed, but they may think again when they fail to sell their puppies.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByFloSin View Post
    I have no idea what the study giving the 80/20 percent figures is. I got the information a couple of years ago from a friend who went on various KC or KC approved courses for judges. I will try to get more information if she has it.
    I think this figure may be some loose use of statistics, but based on reality. Each parent contributes 50% of the DNA. But there's more to genetics than DNA, environment can play a huge factor, and the early environment is entirely on the dam side, everything from the number of puppies, to the chemical composition of milk, and the quantity of milk produce (and several other factors). The sire contributes nothing to the environment.

    But not all traits are environment linked (coat color, for example, will not be affected by environment interactions). And to say that environment contributes 35% of the offspring traits, would be totally bogus. It's not a fixed amount, and different traits are influenced differently by environment.

    That's the only thing I can think that would let them swing the outcome so heavily towards the dam.

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