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Izzie has appointment tonight - Think it's SM

Autaven

Well-known member
I feel ill even writing this, it's like I'm making it official but I just don't know what to do.
My oldest dog, Izzie, was supposed to be going to the vets tomorrow for a check up to get her spayed next week. Her seasons are coming quite close together (4-5 months apart) so they want to make sure she's not lactating/having a phantom beforehand. But I have another problem..

I think she has SM. When she was younger I took her to the vets to get her seem as she kept yelping when you touched her sides/lifted her up, the vets said it was more than likely she had bruised her chest (we run agility and she had had a fall) but he also mentioned there was a risk it was a sign of SM.
Recently though, symptoms have started to appear and be more frequent. She is scratching more or less all of the time (we checked for fleas, and have changed her food to attempt to help but nothing has helped) and now she's started yelping for no reason like something is hurting her, and biting her bum/back legs. She's became a much quieter dog and just doesn't have her spark anymore. I was planning on speaking with the vet tomorrow about it, but this morning has been bad for her - so we got an appointment for tonight instead.

Insurance wise we changed insurance at the start of this year to AXA Lifetime cover, but am I correct in saying she wouldn't be covered anyway because it's hereditary and the symptoms started when she was younger and not insured any. Either way she needs to be seen so we'll get by as best we can.

Can someone please tell me what kind of thing I'm looking to ask the vets or what type of thing they might tell me. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but I really do think this is the problem - so what is the protocol?

Thank you so much, from a very upset Amanda and Izzie :(
 
Hi

If there is nothing on her records pre AXA you will be covered apart from the excess £75 or near ,
just go along and see what the vet says but you will need a ferral to a neurologist and an
MRI to confirm SM
 
Hi

just another thought what date did you go to AXA as I think there may be a period before
you can claim just check the book that AXA sent you as you could be looking at £1500
bri
 
Hi

Found it

"Costs resulting from Pre-existingMedical Conditions, or Conditions whichshow Clinical Signs within the first 14days of the start of cover".
 
Hi

If there is nothing on her records pre AXA you will be covered apart from the excess £75 or near ,
just go along and see what the vet says but you will need a ferral to a neurologist and an
MRI to confirm SM

Thank you. As far as I know there isn't anything on her records apart from the yelping when she was being lifted, I believe the vet put in her records that she had a bruised chest and just mentioned to me that it might have been a symptom of SM - so it's quite likely that there wouldn't be anything. Would it matter though that she'd had the symptoms before the cover started?

Thank you, I've printed off the SM Made Simple document to take with me. Her anal glands have been checked as have the skin issues, is there anything else the vet might check for before I should be referred, or is it sounding like SM is the most likely cause?
 
Hi

My bestest wishes to you for tonight ,just let the vet do his examination then if needed mention what
you suspect but you must get a referral to a neuro who for preferance has an on site MRI scanner so try
and find one near to you that you can ask your vet to refer you to .Once he agrees he has to fax /email
a letter to them then you can arrange an appointment .


This is a link to AXA's terms and conditions but as I say you should be OK

http://www.axa.co.uk/assets/documents/axa.co.uk/personal/insurance/pet/pet-policy-booklet.pdf

As far as her symptoms go you dont know what they are so let your vet pick up from your description.With my Daisy
when I saw my vet I just said staright out I think she may have SM and explained my thoughts then asked for a referral
letter .

Rgds

Brian
 
It could be SM but don't automatically assume it is - Cavaliers are quite prone to disk problems, which could cause the yelping, and also to a middle ear problem called PSOM, which could be causing some of the scratching and can also be picked up by MRI scan but is nothing to do with SM (though the same dogs do often have both problems). And if it is SM, you will know from reading posts on this forum that many of us have dogs who having been living normal, happy lives with SM for many years - just remember it's not a death sentence. Hope you get some answers tonight.:hug:

Kate, Oliver (10.5 years old with SM) and Aled

PS and if Izzie does need a scan you have excellent neurologists and MRI facilities at both Edinburgh and Glasgow universities.

PPS Check if your vet has put on Izzie's medical notes that he thought it might be SM when he examined her before. If he did, and this was before you were insured with AXA, they may well consider it a pre-existing condition.
 
Last edited:
Just to say I will be thinking of you and Izzie. I know how hard all the waiting and Uncertainty is.
 
Brian I am sorry to say you are misreadiing that clause. The AXA policy definitely will NOT cover ANY pre-existing conditions AT ALL, OR conditions which appear in the first 14 days of cover.

The very best of luck on Izzie's visit, Amanda. I think unfrotunaely you are almost certainly looking at SM and probably will really want to get a referral to a neurologist and in the meantime, I hope you vet might get Dr Clare Rusbridge's treatment protocol and immediately get Izzie onto pain relief. There are links here on the board or you can download it and print it off her website.

Please let us know how things go.
 
Thank you so much guys, my vet was brillant

He first wanted to rule out everything so gave her a full work up, he checked her feet, knees, hips and back as we do agility he wanted to be certain it wasn't an injury. He couldn't find any evidence of fleas/mites/ticks etc but gave me a frontline course just to rule it out. He realised she was also having a phantom pregnancy as she's lactating so we were given a hormone to lower hers in order to make sure the yelping wasn't a pain in her uterus (thought he said this was extremely unlikely, just wanted this away to make her more comfortable and leave the option of a spay open when it's gone). He checked her ears and eyes, and also emptied her anal glands though there wasn't much in them just incase this is what was annoying her back end.

After the check he even said that in all his veterinary career he hadn't seen a healthier, fitter looking Cavalier (and he used to have his own). He sent me home with the frontline, liquid hormone and also pain relief. He said that he realises that if I was to ask what it was right now he would say it was 95% SM, but wants me to just bare with him to rule out anything else. But if she is no better on Saturday after her anal gland release, hormones lowered and flea treatment then I've to start the pain management. He made me an appointment next Thursday to see if any of this has improved and said that he's going to refer me to a neurologist at the same time.

I'm obviously quite upset, but he was so good and thorough I'm very happy the care he gave us today. What do you all think, does this seem like he's made all the correct decisions?

Thank you everyone
 
Yes,he's made the correct decisions!
If possible,discuss your worries over insurance with him too and you may be able to get a pre authorisation done from the company before spending money on tests and finding they won't pay.
Of course,it still may not be symptomatic SM. When we had Daisy fully checked by a specialist,we were surprised to find that she had along with SM,Hip Dysplasia and Spondylosis.
Which condition was causing the most pain is anyone's guess...
What truly matters is that your vet seems committed to finding the best solution for keeping your cavalier comfortable.
A good vet is worth their weight in gold and I'm sure your girl will be well looked after.
Sins
 
It sounds as if your vet has been very thorough and am pleased you have confidence in him, so important to trust your vet.
As long as Izzie has pain relief then I feel waiting and watching a good course of action.

Last year my 8 year old starting scratching and I immediately concluded that it was SM, after several doses of flea treatment
all was well.

I hope Izzie improves with the pain medication and she is back to her old self soon.

Nanette
 
Yes, that is exactly the route to have gone; thanks for the extra detail!

The problem with this condition is that a dog can be fantastically healthy in every other way as the problem is neurological and not highly visible and can take time to become symptomatic and for a dog to start to suffer. I have three with SM and none has ever had any other need for vet care outside of minor and common issues -- an upset stomach for example.

Fingers crossed you find it is something else but if not, there are many here with affected dogs at all levels who can give support and answer questions.
 
Thank you everyone for your lovely words. When we got back from the vet on Thursday I gave Izzie her flea treatment and her hormone. It's now Saturday when we've to see if she's the same and whether or not she now needs to go on pain relief and I'm thinking that she does.

Don't get me wrong, after her hormone fluids she has been in a much better mood. She's been very playful - but the itching and the getting a fright/biting her back end is still there. One one hand I've been reluctant to start it just incase as I've only had 2 days to see for any other improvements, on the other hand this has been going on for longer than her lactating and I don't want her to be uncomfortable for longer than necessary. I realise that only I can make this decision because I know her and see her changes, it's just very difficult when I want to be certain we're doing the right thing.
 
I wouldn't rush things...
Unless you've ruled out allergies and other possibilities,I think you could monitor for a while longer.
You don't need to have her on antiinflammatories without good reason.Everything has a side effect and until you're 100% sure it's SM,you *might * be medicating unnecessarily.
Maybe try something like Deracton soap/shampoo to soothe itchy skin?
Sins
 
I'd offer a different perspective (and you will always get a variety of opinions!). If as you say, Izzie has had periods of crying out as if in pain for unidentified reasons as well as the long term scratching and flipping around -- before the lactation, and despite treating skin/allergies -- I'd try medications. All neurologists generally recommend two week trials which isn't a very long period of medication. I'd rather see if the issues ended with painkillers than keep a dog in discomfort/pain in that state for further days or weeks of pain. If painkillers help then that in itself helps with a diagnosis.
 
If the itching and biting is still there then I would start the pain treatment. I am sorry but nowadays, as you own vet has told you, there has to be a very good chances that this is SM.

Dogs cannot say they are hurting, we can only try and 'hear' them by interpreting the symptoms they display. Try the painkillers, see if it makes a difference to her level of comfort
 
Thank you everyone, and Karlin thanks for that perspective. She's asleep now but I plan on giving her them tomorrow and see if she's better.

We have ruled out quite a few things now - so another question, should the pain relief work, is this another step in the direction that it is SM? Or could the pain killers just be helping something else which is causing her pain? I realise we won't know anything until the MRI which is frustrating but would this also be another factor? It's very complicated when there are so many.
 
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