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  1. #1
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    Default Concern For Lily

    Hi

    My little black and tan baby "Lily" who is now 3 1/2 is giving me cause for
    concern ,yesterday morning as I gave them all breakfast and she just as she settled
    down to start she let out four little yelps in succession and backed away
    from her bowl and straight away I start to fear the worst .Very occasionally on
    walks when she is ambling along with the other three she will yelp and jump as
    though somebody has jabbed a needle in her bum but this has occurred no more than
    half a dozon times over the last two/three months but the episode this morning
    was by far the worst .My wife Dawn is home all the time so she is keeping a
    careful watch over her her as she does with all of them .
    Any thoughts please .?
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

  2. #2
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    Perhaps think disk or back before SM? We all get paranoid about the darn disease!

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

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    I agree with Kate, maybe disks or her back. I am lucky that my vet is also an orthopaedic surgeon. When Ebony had her disk problems he knew straight away by looking at her and doing some simple tests, but we still had an MRI.
    Sabby
    Rosie-06/06 - Ebony-01/07 Harley-08/08
    " My sunshine doesn't come from the skies, it comes from the love in my dogs eyes "

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    Could be a disc issue, two of mine have had this on and off, maybe have a word with your vet, even just a phone call for advice may put your mind at ease.

    I had a few issues with DJ recently yelping when picked up or if any of the other dogs sat to near(or on!) him. I just called my vet and explained, he gave me a small dose of mild painkiller, told me to keep a close eye on him and bring him in if it got worse, he was right as rain in a few days and the vet thinks it's discs.
    Gus(blenhiem) Pippin(tri) DJ(ruby)

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    Hello

    And thank you for your replies . Its now 24 hours since the little pain episode and having watched Lily who also sleeps alongside my bed in her crate, she has just been Lily ,nothing unusual at all and she had her normal wrestle and tug of war with the other three last night as they all always do plus charging up and down the stairs and jumping on and off the bed like she always does . I dont think its a disc problem as Rosie had that which was confirmed by MRI with Martin D and Lily's normal mad behaviour is nothing like when Rosie had her disc problem ,with Rosie it was obvious as she wouldn't jump or climb stairs and overall was very subdued .Lily is neither like Daisy who has confirmed SM and has frequent bouts of air scratching but no pain nor any other SM symptoms ,but what Lily does do a lot is , if I can describe it as "rummaging in her undercarriage" which I control with just a squirt of Dermcaton but there is no pain involved just nosing and licking down there .I also thoroughly inspected her last night while grooming her and no lumps ,bumps or show of any pain or discomfort at all .

    I have phoned my Vets and as its a large practice asked who is on today and Mr Marsden one of the partners is there this afternoon so we are seeing him at 2.55 pm,so fingers crossed we get it sorted and its something simple .
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

  6. #6
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    Hopefully it is nothing to worry about
    Gus(blenhiem) Pippin(tri) DJ(ruby)

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    Default

    Brian, With all due respect,I think if you have seen these frankly very disturbing recurring bouts of yelps on walks and then again, in this instance at feeding, you really need to look into a potential cause as it isn't happening for no reason–you probably do need an x-ray, and if that doesn't show anything (disk problems, hip dysplasia etc), an MRI. This just is not normal behavior. For what it is worth, I do have a dog with SM who constantly tries to scratch primarily her stomach and belly area and she also has discomfort around her tail. She is also a paw licker. I think different dogs displace their discomfort in different ways and licking paws can be comforting, just as this kind of behavior is often comforting for cats that are in discomfort.

    It is also worth remembering that Dr. Marino has said before that he believes fewer than half of the dogs he sees with SM scratch at all. Those that do scratch are doing so because of discomfort and some pain– and most neurologists, with a very few exceptions, do not view scratching as a benign, pain-free behavior. And I do think it is very difficult for any of us with a dog that is not reaching the point where it shows very obvious signs of pain–like yelping in discomfort or shying away from touch–to say that we have a dog that is not experiencing pain from this condition. Many people live with chronic pain and perhaps the only outward sign you would see is discomfort in walking or in movement–not dissimilar to what many of our dogs do with SM. That doesn't mean there isn't considerable underlying pain. That's why there is a project at the moment to try to find better ways of assessing pain in dogs with this condition. You are seeing signs of a dog that has reached a point where the internal effects cause enough discomfort (and what is the borderline between discomfort and pain?). I have seen my most affected dog be so extraordinarily stoic when he is obviously in deep pain–as he has twice with a ruptured anal gland–that I no longer think we have any right to make assumptions about what they are feeling, but must take seriously any outward expression as a sign that the discomfort/pain is great enough that they have to react in some way. Of course there are much greater extremities of obvious pain, and those are the dogs that are especially tragic–because you know if most dogs are fairly good at tolerating high levels of pain, such dogs must be in true misery.

    That is why I just do not think you can take any outward sign of discomfort or pain as a minor worry, unfortunately especially in this breed where syringomyelia is so widespread. I think you are right to go for a vet appointment, but please do take this very seriously–I have to say I find this description below, entirely separately from what you just saw around her food, just really alarming (not least because it has been recurring half a dozen times–which is a LOT! My most affected dog Leo, who has been on medication for years, has never shown this much pain, ever, on walks) and I would get Lily in immediately to a vet and probably a neurologist on the basis of these signs alone. If a child had been doing this, would anyone ignore it or dismiss it as just an oddity? hasn't Lily had recurring issues like this over the years, as well? I thought it was suggested that she should have an MRI a quite a while back due to other things you have seen over time? or maybe I am confusing that with one of your other girls.

    Very occasionally on
    walks when she is ambling along with the other three she will yelp and jump as
    though somebody has jabbed a needle in her bum but this has occurred no more than
    half a dozon times over the last two/three months
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Sorry to hear about Lily Brian....do let us know how the vet goes!

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    Hi Brian, just checking to see how Lily got on at the vets....?
    Gus(blenhiem) Pippin(tri) DJ(ruby)

  10. #10
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    .Hi
    Thanks for being concerned and showing support .
    I was at my Vets at 2.55pm Friday and Lily was checked for everything Mr M could think of including eyes,ears ,discs,patella ,hips ,weight,heart,etc he also watched her walking and running and quizzed me for 25 minutes while also giving
    her a very thorough physical examination. He checked and emptied her anal gland ( I wonder ??? if ) which were very full and then declared he could find nothing wrong with her ,hurrayyyyyyyy what a relief .So we continue to closely observe
    as we all do with all of our beloved Cavaliers but "we must never ever forget to enjoy them for their companionship and company."

    My Rosie had both patella and disc problems and was cared for by Martin D at Chestergates and Orthopedic Surgeon Ben K at N.W.Surgeons so nothing Lily did suggested to me it was these, but thankfully for Rosie no operation was needed just crate
    rest. So my main concerns were either SM or CM and of course the dreaded unknown but thankfully Lily displayed no symptoms to Mr M
    to indicate either of these and therefore currently no reason for a referral for an MRI ,so I abide by my Vets decision and
    thankfully Lily has been "Just Lily" since Friday .

    If I may quote a good trusted friend and member of C.T. who did some investigative work on Lily's parents for me .

    Your Lily is the product of two MRI A parents,the sire being an older dog without central canal dilation.
    I don't know what her dam's scan is other than it's an A.
    This mating is one of the best that can even be done now with all the knowledge that exists.The odds are very much in her favour that it's NOT SM.

    Also
    Dr. Rusbridge provided these interim statistics:
    ● Matings of Code A CKCS to Code A CKCS have produced 75.9% offspring with no SM


    So fingers crossed for the future but who knows we can only do our best when buying and of course give them
    every care that's available when things go wrong .

    Sincerest thanks again ,its a horrible time when any little one gives you cause for concern.

    And thanks to M.C. and Nicki for directing me to her breeder and Lily when I was searching for a B&T girl from two Grade A parents
    as there was only Lily about about I was searching
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

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