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Breeder suggestions

Oh I did. And was a little showy in what I knew about the health problems when phrasing questions for their benefit. I know that around here most people are all about "Oh my gosh their so cute I want one" and haven't the first clue that they aren't at least of average health. At least that group of 30 or so has a seed planted. I can't make them do anything with it, but it's there.
 
... I ... emailed her back asking for her health certs. She sent vets phone number and went on a 2 paragraph rant about puppy millers and how current trends in legislature are encouraging them while threatening to shut down breeders who treat their dogs like family, which came out of no where. I didn't even call the vet, just asked again about certs. She blew the question off again and I asked to be removed from her mailing list. .

I think you have your answer about the health testing. I call it gas-bagging, usually the brownish variety, to camouflage her lack of honesty.

... I will be calling Roycroft when the time comes ...

Whomever you call, be sure to ask if the breeder not only "tests" hearts, but also follows the mitral valve breeding protocol, and by that, I mean the REAL MVD breeding protocol, not one that the breeder makes up on her own. See http://cavalierhealth.org/mvdprotocol.htm for the real protocol.
 
Here's a surprise. Some 'usual suspects' breeders elsewhere are getting worked up about the issue of whether pain is being caused by CM or disc disease and dispute CM (the same 'health experts' who voted for a secretive panel of breed club 'health reps ' from their clubs -- yes, the ones that as we can document, have members that breed cavaliers well under the MVD protocol age... :rolleyes:) How supportive of the breed to have them denying the reality of a condition many in the real world know causes pain in their dogs :sl*p:.

Maybe they have forgotten that disc disease as commonly seen in cavaliers, is largely an INHERITED condition as well (look it up, breeders: the main disc condition in cavaliers is chondrodystrophic disc disease, which is inherited)? Which any vet will say (and indeed, some of those breeders themselves), they regularly see in cavaliers? So, are they now sunk to the level of disputing how pain is bred into the breed? Whether it is better for breeders to breed in painful disk degenrative disease, than a skull malformation?

The real issue we are discussing here, amongst people who have actual experience of dogs in severe pain over many years (so many of those breeders say they never, ever see in their own dogs -- so what, exactly, gives them more authority on an issue they apparently know so little about at first hand? :rolleyes:) is supplying adequate relief to a dog in pain.

To do so means getting a correct diagnosis. As many in the real world know, for such dogs, treating for CM frequently offers relief that treating for disc disease did not. That is one reason those who have CM dogs with significant pain, and the actual experts who advise on care for them, can generally tell the problem isn't disc disease.

The parallel issue in this thread is the importance for puppy buyers to find dedicated, health-focused breeders who are not off in dream la-la showland still denying there are health issues, and/or that they can do anything about them, despite several studies that show they CAN.

I would guess that at least a third of people here and elsewhere who have eventually had a CM/SM diagnosis, enabling them to finally relieve their dog's pain with adequate medications or surgery, were initially told they had a dog with... disc disease. For many, their dog failed to get adequate treatment for months to years while their vet (and apparently, breeders?) mistakenly believed in and advised this wrong diagnosis (because of course, they have little to no expertise in diagnosing a specialist condition like CM/SM that requires MRIs and a knowledge of the conditions). Disc disease, amongst other possibilities, IS an important, and sadly, a REGULARLY SEEN, INHERITED problem in cavaliers to check for *first* but if pain persists and other suspicious CM/SM symptoms are seen, than anyone who cares about their dogs and their pain will see a neurologist, get a more complete diagnosis, and treat for the disease actually causing the pain.

Why this obvious approach to properly caring for a dog and diagnosing its pain -- surely the route that would be taken if they had a child with elusive and recurring pain -- eludes some breeders and so-called 'health reps' is anyone's guess (and I am sure a few guesses will be made...).
 
Hi,

Sorry responding to an earlier query. The first vet hospital I called is in the city; I then phoned the neurology department at UC Davis, and yes they get Cavaliers all the time.
 
Here's a surprise. Some 'usual suspects' breeders elsewhere are getting worked up about the issue of whether pain is being caused by CM or disc disease and dispute CM (the same 'health experts' who voted for a secretive panel of breed club 'health reps ' from their clubs -- yes, the ones that as we can document, have members that breed cavaliers well under the MVD protocol age... :rolleyes:) How supportive of the breed to have them denying the reality of a condition many in the real world know causes pain in their dogs :sl*p:.

Maybe they have forgotten that disc disease as commonly seen in cavaliers, is largely an INHERITED condition as well (look it up, breeders: the main disc condition in cavaliers is chondrodystrophic disc disease, which is inherited)? Which any vet will say (and indeed, some of those breeders themselves), they regularly see in cavaliers? So, are they now sunk to the level of disputing how pain is bred into the breed? Whether it is better for breeders to breed in painful disk degenrative disease, than a skull malformation?

The real issue we are discussing here, amongst people who have actual experience of dogs in severe pain over many years (so many of those breeders say they never, ever see in their own dogs -- so what, exactly, gives them more authority on an issue they apparently know so little about at first hand? :rolleyes:) is supplying adequate relief to a dog in pain.

To do so means getting a correct diagnosis. As many in the real world know, for such dogs, treating for CM frequently offers relief that treating for disc disease did not. That is one reason those who have CM dogs with significant pain, and the actual experts who advise on care for them, can generally tell the problem isn't disc disease.

The parallel issue in this thread is the importance for puppy buyers to find dedicated, health-focused breeders who are not off in dream la-la showland still denying there are health issues, and/or that they can do anything about them, despite several studies that show they CAN.

I would guess that at least a third of people here and elsewhere who have eventually had a CM/SM diagnosis, enabling them to finally relieve their dog's pain with adequate medications or surgery, were initially told they had a dog with... disc disease. For many, their dog failed to get adequate treatment for months to years while their vet (and apparently, breeders?) mistakenly believed in and advised this wrong diagnosis (because of course, they have little to no expertise in diagnosing a specialist condition like CM/SM that requires MRIs and a knowledge of the conditions). Disc disease, amongst other possibilities, IS an important, and sadly, a REGULARLY SEEN, INHERITED problem in cavaliers to check for *first* but if pain persists and other suspicious CM/SM symptoms are seen, than anyone who cares about their dogs and their pain will see a neurologist, get a more complete diagnosis, and treat for the disease actually causing the pain.

Why this obvious approach to properly caring for a dog and diagnosing its pain -- surely the route that would be taken if they had a child with elusive and recurring pain -- eludes some breeders and so-called 'health reps' is anyone's guess (and I am sure a few guesses will be made...).

Yes my Ebony has 3 degenerated disks and had an MRI because of this. To start off I know she was in pain because she could not jump onto the sofa. After a lot of crate rest and previcox she went back to her old self, but the rolling around on the floor didn’t stop. When Clare looked at the MRI she confirmed symptomatic CM and said that the CM would course Ebony more pain than the discs. And since we got her on Gabapentin Ebony has stopped the rolling about and the scratching. So I believe that this proofs that Ebony has got symptomatic CM.
 
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