Looking for advice

[fisher]

Hello i'm really just after a bit of advice if anyone can help me, I have a 15 week old cavalier pup called belle, on Friday when we woke up belle had diareoah(sp) and then vomited once. We imediatly took her to the vet who said she had caught a bug and gave her antibiotics.

The next day belle was still very sleepy and didn't have much food. The day after thou she was on her feet but was moving about as if she was drunk and was struggling to balance, so we went back to the vet and he said that she had SM, me and my girlfriend researched alot about SM and belle wasn't showing any kinds of symptoms at all, and through alot of research I understand that not all symptoms are shown and some cavaliers have it more servere then others but from the lists we've found she doesn't have a single symtom.

The next day belle was still a bit wobbly and the day after that (yesterday) belle seems to be back to 100%. We live in Sunderland, north east of England and I was wondering if anyone on this forum could recomend a vet in the north east who has experience with cavaliers because I feel the vet has just looked at the breed and diagnosed belle due to it being extremely common among cavaliers.

Thanks for any help
Andrew

[Karlin]

I'll start by saying you DEFINITELY need to change vets. On three different levels, this was very poor information and treatment.

1) He cannot diagnose a condition like SM without referring you for an MRI so he was absolutely wrong to give you this 'diagnosis' and also shows very poor knowledge of the condition and the symptoms. None of this behaviour is at all typical for SM, and symptoms would be unusual in a puppy that young.

2) If he seriously suspected SM he should have urgently referred you to a specialist who COULD diagnose it. BUT I think any neurologist would not have considered SM a likely explanation. That he didn't refer you and your puppy is appalling -- if he truly thought a young pup had this condition yet did nothing is just bizarre and irresponsible.

3) With those symptoms any vet I know would be urgently looking for a cause. Unfortunately it does sound as if you are looking at something going on - I'd look into Episodic Falling Syndrome, for which there is a definitive DNA test your (new) vet can order. Others may have some different suggestions. EFS comes and goes but if this lack of balance was continuous then maybe it was something more simple -- an inner ear infection for example which could affect balance. If the issue recurs you will know you are dealing with something that will need further exploring.

Others may well have other suggestions for what might be considered as a cause.

I'd maybe recommend your old vet surgery become familiar with the information on SM for vets on Clare Rusbridge's website once you get a correct diagnosis.

[fisher]

Thankyou so much for your reply. The vet did give us some tablets to give her to reduce fluid build up and a steroid tablet, can't remember off the top of my head what they are. We won't be going back to that vet and I do understand that vets are quite general because there is so many different types of animals and breeds they has to look after and there is only so much they can no about things, that is just why I was wondering if there is anyone else in the area who can recomend a vet who has good knowledge of cavaliers? When me and my girlfriend were researching we came across vestibular disease and we seen video's of dogs with it and it looked almost identical to what belle was doing

[Karlin]

I am sure some others will see this thread who can talk about some other possibilities -- a few here know vestibular disease for example. I also hope someone in your area might have a good vet suggestion.

Keep checking back on the thread as you'll likely get a few responses over the next while. People check in at different times and not every day.

[fisher]

Thankyou for your help and taking your time to reply

[sins]

A 15 week old puppy is very young and if it had vomiting and diarrhoea and had a bug,then it might just have been wobbly because it was weak and dehydrated.It should certainly not be on a tablet for reducing fluid as it may already be dehydrated from the diarrhoea.
I would ring a few workmates or friends and just ask for details of a different vet,get the pup a checkup.
Give the breeder a call for advice and if the puppy has recovered and is up and trotting around normally,there is nothing to worry about.
Then put the idea of SM out of your mind and enjoy your puppy.Chances are there is nothing at all wrong with it.
Talk to your new vet about worming,vaccines and keeping the ears clean to prevent infection and mites.
Stick around on the board and let us know what the new vet says. Good luck!
Sins

[Soushiruiuma]

A 15 week old puppy is very young and if it had vomiting and diarrhoea and had a bug,then it might just have been wobbly because it was weak and dehydrated.It should certainly not be on a tablet for reducing fluid as it may already be dehydrated from the diarrhoea.
Sins

And a steroid would suppress the immune system worsening an infection. What country are you in? Are you sure this vet is licensed? You have received terrible diagnoses, advice and treatment. Please find a new vet immediately.

[Soushiruiuma]

The more I think about this the more distressing I find it. Young puppies are fragile, and can progress from bad to worse very rapidly The diuretic and steroid could be enough to throw a sick puppy into a potentially deadly situation. Please seek veterinary advice as quickly as possible, I would be looking for an emergency vet if it's night where you are.

[fisher]

Thankyou for the help everyone even thou I am not a vet I thought something was wrong when I starte researching about it, belle seems completely fine now back to her playful self and chewing my shoes to bits ha. As far as I no he is a licensed vet, the practice all seemed legit but not really sure how I would no if it was not.

Surely there must be some vets in my local area who have a interest in cavaliers and the problems they have? I would rather find one who specialises in them if I could

[Nicki]

I'm sorry to hear this Andrew very worrying for you especially with such a wee pup. I echo what Karlin says - extremely unlikely to be Syringomyelia at this age and really not typical symptoms anyway.

It's quite shocking how the vet treated your puppy and as Soushiruiuma says, actually quite dangerous. I can't understand why he's given you diuretics anyway - what fluid build up? She could have very quickly dehydrated.

If that is for Syringomyelia this is a rather outdated way of dealing with it, Frusemide is rarely used now - and steroids are used much further down the line. Again it should not have been diagnosed with out a neuorological assessment and really a referral to a neurologist for a consultation and ideally an MRI. have a look at http://sm.cavaliertalk.com/, www.cavaliermatters.org and http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/ there is information you can print off which I strongly recommend you do and take into this vet - to help others in the future. There is a treatment algorithm which gives the up to date protocols for treatment.



There is more info about EFS here and videos http://episodicfalling.com/ but usually after an episode they bounce back almost straight away.

Did the vet even check her ears? An ear infection could give these symptoms and the antibiotics *may* have helped clear something like that.


Vestibular Syndrome is more common in older dogs and would be unusual to see it in a dog of this age. more here http://www.stannesvets.co.uk/petheal...bular+Syndrome


there is a website to search for vets http://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/find-a-vet/ but obviously they are not reviewed. As Sins says the best recommendation is from the guardians of dogs you meet when out and about - although obviously this is based on personal experience which can vary. I had a very bad experience with my vets after 7 years of using them which forced me to change - I know many others have left that practice now but many are still very happy there.

Angela who is a member here but only a very infrequent visitor does live in your area [I think she is still there] You can contact her through her website http://cavacast.com/ I'm sure she will help if she can - she is involved with rescue work so may know of good vets in your area.


I would write down everything that happened, and anything before it that may have been involved - eaten anything out of the ordinary, extra exercise etc

If you are giving the diuretic and steroids then I would see another vet TOMORROW, explain what's happened and see if they think she actually needs to be taking those drugs.

Please come back and let us know what is happening. Such a shame as you should be just enjoying your new puppy.