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Thread: Hope this is the right place but Bentleys Breeder is under investigation

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    Agree on this. And on www.smcavaliers.com I have many videos of SM dogs with a range of symptoms to different degrees. Lead-scratching is quite particular in the way it looks -- and SM scratching as you can see in my Leo's video tends to be intense and it is hard to distract the dog from scratching. Several of my cavaliers face rub including the two that do/did not have SM and only very mild CM.

    You'd really want to see a few suspicious, maintained behaviours over time where a vet can find no other reason/they recur without any clear reason. I'd always however keep a question in my mind of vets come back saying disk disease or allergies -- these can have very similar symptoms but I know way too many diagnoses where the true problem was untreated SM. Vets do not have the professional ability (speciality qualifications, skills and experience) to differentiate between those conditions and CM/SM which means they can be positive a symptom is something it is not, and the dog experiences inadequately treated pain/discomfort often for a very, very long time. For recurrent "disk" or "allergy" symptoms in this breed, I'd eventually ask for a neurologist referral.

    There's also growing proof that many dogs have significant symptoms from CM alone which can be dismissed by some neurologists less familiar with SM (and many radiologists/neurologists are poor to mediocre at even reading MRIs for CM).

    Neurologist Geoff Skerritt actually advises that NO dogs with even mild CM be bred, though clearly this advice is ignored by the many breeders who have him do their scans in the UK, as almost all dogs scan with some degree of CM. I understand not a single cavalier has scanned free of CM on the BVA/KC scanning programme, demonstrating what a challenge this problem is in the breed. It also has to raise serious douvbts about the readings from a couple of US neurologists who have claimed to find several CM-clear cavaliers, which their breeders then broadcast (despite being told how unlikely this would be, and not going for a second opinion reading ... caveat emptor to puppy buyers on any breeder making such claims!). Realistically, breeders have to work with dogs with some degree of CM and focus instead on syrinxes, and scan their older dogs, as the ones clear of syrinxes still after 5-6 seem (according to researchers) to have a protective gene(s) that prevents them getting SM or at least, significant SM.

    In looking for a breeder, I'd be asking for whether they scan their older dogs, and the results... that to me is more valuable information almost than a given dog's scan, if it is available (unfortunately it rarely is). Rupert's Fund is of course trying to make this scanning option available for free to as many breeders as possible so they have this information for their breeding programme.
    If I ever get another cav I am going to ask the meet up group in fairfield for references too, there is a teacher at the school I want to ask also as she has a tri cav too. I am going to then research every breeder I have been referred to. Then interview them and ask for proof of the mri and the heart testing, then call the vet who did them.. I am just going to be over the top about it because in the end I will know I did everything to get a healthy cav. No guarantees but a better chance.

  2. #22
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    Try not to beat yourself up too much about this. One: it's not sure yet that the breeder was fraudulent. Two: if she was, then you were fooled but that doesn't mean Bentley will get ill.

    As much as I dislike lawsuits, I would recommend you collect all paperwork you have regarding Bentleys purchase and write down the dates of your conversations and recollections of what you asked and her answers. If you find out that she was deceptive, you could possible take her to court for some reimbursement.

    In the States, I believe Trupanion covers genetic diseases. Good luck! I wish Bentley a long and healthy life. He's certainly well loved!

  3. #23
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    I am so sorry. Others gave better advice than I could, but I just wanted to say...it's not your fault. You did what you thought you should, asked the questions that should be asked. You were studied, you did well. We, as humans, cannot be held responsible for others actions (does not mean it does not hurt though). She will pay her dues, if needed, in this life or the next...right now what matters is you pup. And loving the way that makes you happy. No matter what happens, this is your pup now and judging from how much work you put into pre-puppy, you will be an amazing adult dog owner. No matter what.
    Worst case is something like SM, but, SM can even happen (though on a reduced and better chance rate) with proper MRI breeding. And I say "can" NOT because it will, but MRI gives you the most responsible, best chance. But then...life takes over.

    No matter what, SM is incredibly distressing, but not a death sentence. This dog is lucky to have you and "past" has run it's course. Get angry, get upset, save files, save correspondence, analyze. And then hug the crap out of your dog and know it is here for a reason, in your life for a reason, here to teach you, here to teach us...and keep moving forward. Forward.
    Hugs to you...big ones. xx

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emkaybee View Post
    Try not to beat yourself up too much about this. One: it's not sure yet that the breeder was fraudulent. Two: if she was, then you were fooled but that doesn't mean Bentley will get ill.

    As much as I dislike lawsuits, I would recommend you collect all paperwork you have regarding Bentleys purchase and write down the dates of your conversations and recollections of what you asked and her answers. If you find out that she was deceptive, you could possible take her to court for some reimbursement.

    In the States, I believe Trupanion covers genetic diseases. Good luck! I wish Bentley a long and healthy life. He's certainly well loved!
    I was having some suspicions, as There seems to keep being a hold up with his papers. first they were held pending for a while, then she said she got them and the birthday was wrong, now it has been 3 weeks since that with no reply. she never even registered him like she told me she did when he was born, she said she decided to wait till after he was neutered.
    I have a contract saying I will get papers transfered to me from AKC when I show proof of neuter. I sent her proof of neuter about 3 months ago now. he was neutered in Feb, it is May now. I was telling an old room mate of mine what is going on (she works part time at a shih tzu rescue) anyways her sister is a lawyer, she immediatly said "talk to my sister, if you don't get papers, that is a law suite!" I have a contract signed about it. hmm She said then if he is sick, you take any money and put it towards his care. I do not want to think about that.. hopefully it won't come to that. I personally am not the type to go into a law suite. I never considered doing anything like that.

  5. #25
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    what I did do that helped me last night was instead of watching a zillion videos of Cavs with SM and comparing the behavior (so that every little itch or shake freaks me out) I watched cavs in general on you tube, I watched undiagnosed with sm cavs just being cavs, and I noticed that they will give a shake now and then also, they will lick their lips here and there when they need water, they dig to make their beds up too. they get itchy too. They are not diagnosed with sm. It helped me relax and realize that he is fine for now.
    Every now and them Bentley will do that stuff too. (heck he can't lie down till the cushion is all fluffed) but he will stop when asked, it is nothing out of control. It is normal puppy stuff at this point.

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