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Thread: Hope this is the right place but Bentleys Breeder is under investigation

  1. #11
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    Such a shock for you when you had tried so hard to do the right thing, I can imagine how angry and concerned you are.

    You are obviously such a responsible owner. Bentley is a lucky dog to be so loved.

    I am afraid that some breeders would put a dodgy second hand car salesman to shame.

    I do hope that if any legal action is taken the puppy buyers that have been lied to and duped will give evidence against her.

    I'm afraid there are dishonest breeders like that all over the world. All it needs is one or two angry and determined owners to take them to court and a powerful message could be sent to those that say one thing and do another.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  2. #12
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    Hello, I'm new here and will write a little bit about myself later. Not quite sure yet my way round this site.

    Nothing in life is guaranteed to be perfect. You can do everything right, help the community, buy ethical goods, etc, etc and bad things can still happen to you.
    When my daughter was born 20 years ago with Downs syndrome, I thought why me? I did everything right in my pregnancy, kept smokers away from me, ate all the right foods, etc, etc. I was so angry with the doctors for not doing the right tests, etc. I even started to sue them.
    It took about six months to realise why me.... why, because I investigated what was available for her, but decided to do lots of alternative things as well. Those therapies I did with my daughter made her defy all the odds. She went to mainstream schools, speaks 2 languages and is currently learning a 3rd. And has a full time job which she travels to on the tube everyday.

    I'm here because I think my two year old cavalier has SM, despite buying her from a top breeder in the UK.....
    I'm not angry with her, because I don't think she did it deliberately. I know life is a lottery, and I think all of us are lucky to have dogs that fell to the right, caring owners who will do their best to help them. And to progress research with this disease.

    I know why me.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3kids1cav View Post
    thank you! I really really appreciate this response. I have pet insurance for Bentley but I would hate to needlessly spend the 1000 on an mri and barely get refunded (they hardly refund us at all) I am going to look into different insurances We have VPI for Bentley, in the usa.. one of the higher up the ladder ones. I was told to have it for the first year, but I am going to keep it now for sure!
    I don't want to upset you anymore but on the health insurance I have to mention VPI does not cover heriditary conditions ie would not cover MRI for SM.

    I debated saying something, but I feel any cavalier owner (from any breeder or rescue) should get pet insurance from one that does cover heridatary conditions. Just something to think about.

    I know you are upset but know that Bentley came to you no matter how and you are not at fault. A lot of people gave good advice and I hope you will find comfort.
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

  4. #14
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    I have to agree with Anne with the insurance, but want to add that if you decide to change insurance plans, do not mention testing to your vet until the insurance kicks in. If the vet writes anything in Bentley's chart about SM or other inheritated diseases, the insurance company could deem it as pre existing and not cover the costs.
    Joyce - Proudly owned & loved by

    BellaMia (Aug. 30, 2012) My Beautiful Ruby Milo (Jan. 20, 2014) My Handsome Tri
    Sydney (
    April 16, 2000~April 4, 2012) Always and Forever In My Heart

  5. #15
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    And he was walking along like two hrs ago, and the back leg started air scratching! I knee jerk shock reaction cried out, "Bentley what are you doing?!" and he stopped and looked at me. My husband said we are going to switch insurance next week for him and then call the vet when it kicks in and talk to him about it.. I also did not realize furniture digging was a symptom, he does that but I thought he was just looking for cushion crumbs. Trying not to freak, I would rather know if he is having a problem with this.
    Does anyone know if Embrace covers SM? I think I need to find an insurance that will in case this was not just him being itchy and not being able to reach and it was sm.

  6. #16
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    First, take a breath then go give Bentley a hug.

    Many dogs will furniture dig. It is normal dog behavior. Other behaviors like face rubbing in the carpet or on the sides of furniture is also normal.. There are many things dogs do that is just normal. But you are right, it could also be symptoms of SM. I know you're worried and scared, but for right now, I wouldn't read too much into these behaviors. Just take it one step at a time. Write down symptoms and when and what time you see them. If something is really distressing, take a video of it. Save all the information and bring it to your vet when time comes.

    I don't know about Embrace insurance, but here is a recent thread about insurance. You may find it helpful.

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...ight=insurance
    Joyce - Proudly owned & loved by

    BellaMia (Aug. 30, 2012) My Beautiful Ruby Milo (Jan. 20, 2014) My Handsome Tri
    Sydney (
    April 16, 2000~April 4, 2012) Always and Forever In My Heart

  7. #17
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    I am just going to try to relax, I am going to try to make sure we have all our eggs in a row just in case. getting the right insurance. Having a talk with the vet after, ect. I did tell Keith about the breeder and he reacted fine, he is upset though I can tell about the worry of SM, he has never had luck with dogs, his Lab growing up died at 5 from kidney desease, he was so attached he refused to get attached to another dog, till now, and now he is attached to Bentley and he said "if he has something I just will never do this dog thing again" I told him we would, maybe a different breed next time, one with a big long 17 year life span an nothing too prone to anything devastating. I told him chances are Bentley is fine, and just being a puppy, and that we need to just love him and enjoy him and be glad for every day with him. weather it be 2 years or 18 years.

  8. #18
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    Hello and welcome.

    I am really pleased your daughter is so successful and it is obviously due to her hard work and your love and determination, but as far as I know there is little that can be done to prevent the chance of a child being born with Down's Syndrome, while there are recommendations in place to give cavalier puppies a better chance of not developing early onset Syringomyelia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitzymeesh View Post
    I'm here because I think my two year old cavalier has SM, despite buying her from a top breeder in the UK.....
    I'm not angry with her, because I don't think she did it deliberately. .

    I would accept that no breeder is going to deliberately breed a dog with SM, why would they do something that was so cruel and stupid?

    My question would be was this top breeder using the health guidelines that are part of the Cavalier Club's Code of Good Practice to do her best to avoid the puppies developing SM so young?

    If either of your cavalier's parents were under two and a half years old and/or not MRI scanned, or heart tested clear of SM and heart murmur after that age, then she deliberately took a chance on the health of your puppy.

    If I discovered that someone had lied to me or had produced false certificates then I would be very angry indeed, especially for the dogs that actually live with the pain.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  9. #19
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    She told me she used the ckcs code for breeding. that was one of my first questions. His parents were 3 (dad) and almost 3. (mom) so on the younger side. she said they were heart tested and clear, mri'd and hip cleared and showed me certificates. The claim is that these certificates might be fakes. This looks as though it might be an angry person (the whole thing started over a woman mad because the breeder would not cover giardia treatment, she went digging and started coming up with dirt.) Either way yea he probably is at risk. It makes me really upset. But I am trying not to dwell on it, get the insurance squared away, then if I start to see lots of signs, call the vet and get the ball rolling.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydneys Mom View Post
    First, take a breath then go give Bentley a hug.

    Many dogs will furniture dig. It is normal dog behavior. Other behaviors like face rubbing in the carpet or on the sides of furniture is also normal.. There are many things dogs do that is just normal. But you are right, it could also be symptoms of SM. I know you're worried and scared, but for right now, I wouldn't read too much into these behaviors. Just take it one step at a time. Write down symptoms and when and what time you see them. If something is really distressing, take a video of it. Save all the information and bring it to your vet when time comes.
    Agree on this. And on www.smcavaliers.com I have many videos of SM dogs with a range of symptoms to different degrees. Lead-scratching is quite particular in the way it looks -- and SM scratching as you can see in my Leo's video tends to be intense and it is hard to distract the dog from scratching. Several of my cavaliers face rub including the two that do/did not have SM and only very mild CM.

    You'd really want to see a few suspicious, maintained behaviours over time where a vet can find no other reason/they recur without any clear reason. I'd always however keep a question in my mind of vets come back saying disk disease or allergies -- these can have very similar symptoms but I know way too many diagnoses where the true problem was untreated SM. Vets do not have the professional ability (speciality qualifications, skills and experience) to differentiate between those conditions and CM/SM which means they can be positive a symptom is something it is not, and the dog experiences inadequately treated pain/discomfort often for a very, very long time. For recurrent "disk" or "allergy" symptoms in this breed, I'd eventually ask for a neurologist referral.

    There's also growing proof that many dogs have significant symptoms from CM alone which can be dismissed by some neurologists less familiar with SM (and many radiologists/neurologists are poor to mediocre at even reading MRIs for CM).

    Neurologist Geoff Skerritt actually advises that NO dogs with even mild CM be bred, though clearly this advice is ignored by the many breeders who have him do their scans in the UK, as almost all dogs scan with some degree of CM. I understand not a single cavalier has scanned free of CM on the BVA/KC scanning programme, demonstrating what a challenge this problem is in the breed. It also has to raise serious douvbts about the readings from a couple of US neurologists who have claimed to find several CM-clear cavaliers, which their breeders then broadcast (despite being told how unlikely this would be, and not going for a second opinion reading ... caveat emptor to puppy buyers on any breeder making such claims!). Realistically, breeders have to work with dogs with some degree of CM and focus instead on syrinxes, and scan their older dogs, as the ones clear of syrinxes still after 5-6 seem (according to researchers) to have a protective gene(s) that prevents them getting SM or at least, significant SM.

    In looking for a breeder, I'd be asking for whether they scan their older dogs, and the results... that to me is more valuable information almost than a given dog's scan, if it is available (unfortunately it rarely is). Rupert's Fund is of course trying to make this scanning option available for free to as many breeders as possible so they have this information for their breeding programme.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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