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Thread: Swabs - DNA testing, Van Andel Research Institute

  1. #11
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    yes consider it done, have emailed linda already, want to help as much as i can. karen

  2. #12
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    Already done and I will send it on to Oliver's breeder as I am sure she will help too.

    M&O

  3. #13
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    There are some questions that have been raised about this approach however, as worthy as it may sound. These have been noted here in response to the same post in the Health section -- not deterring anyone from being involved, but really this does not sound a very professional approach and the last thing needed is a "DNA test" that is actually misleading and inaccurate.

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...yone-read-this

    I'd want a lot more information on how they are conducting these projects and verifying information -- simply handing in owner documents especially if they are vets giving a 'no murmur' response -- as statistically a study has shown vets miss HALF of all early onset murmurs! -- and neurologists and radiologists have differed in interpretation on scans -- they need a lot of quality control, and independent verification/agreement on health results.

    I wonder how much they actually know about cavalier health issues and that there has been DNA work down in the UK and Canada already on some of these conditions; ongoing work as well.

    I also really question whether simply being free of SM is adequate -- the current, existing DNA work is looking at the complex relationship with CM. I dont think you can simply work on 'has SM/doesn't have SM -- especially if swabs come from dogs scanned more than 6 months previously as 'free of SM'. Many here know to their own shock that a dog can scan free of SM and be affected within 12 months.

    Owner self-submission for scientific work, in short, is quite bizarre by research standards.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  4. #14
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    emailing now!

  5. #15
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    Karlin wrote: I also really question whether simply being free of SM is adequate

    I would second this. Aled scanned clear of SM 3 years ago. If I had sent in that result 6 months ago, I would still have assumed him clear, whereas he almost certainly already had the SM that was diagnosed when he was scanned last week. And even a dog who scanned clear yesterday could be carrying the SM genes - this is a progressive disease and unfortunately no-one can say 'My dog has scanned clear and therefore will never get the disease.' And until the genes and mode of inheritance are identified, even those older dogs scanned clear with Rupert's Fund, while providing an invaluable control group, could still be carriers. This research project makes it all sound so simple - get enough genetic samples, and bingo! you'll identify the gene - and sadly it ain't.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomObvious View Post
    If you just check out this web site you can order the kit. Took me like 2 seconds. Nicki's right why not???

    Melissa
    Actually, Nicki simply reposted from Jill S.'s Facebook page. The thoughts were not Nicki's, but were from someone who is not a member here. I don't know what Nicki's thoughts are! This has been all over the Cavalier message boards and email groups.

    Just because something is simple to do does not make it worthwhile or valid. I like to give some thought into projects in which I plan to participate. I have participated in a couple of valuable research projects - including sending the heart/femoral arteries of a deceased Cavalier to Dr. James Buchanan, and participating in the Rupert's Fund scanning of older Cavaliers. In all instances, there were very specific instructions (which were not particularly simple to do) and board certified veterinary specialists were involved in interpreting data. I felt very satisfied that I was making a contribution to valid research, which was important to me.

    I finally found the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say on another message board - the company is simply collecting 1,000 cheek swabs at this point and they have no idea what, if anything, they will do with them. They haven't determined if there will be ANY study beyond the early deafness research. Thanks very much to the person who clarified this - I agree that this has taken on "a life of its own." The truth makes pretty good sense, the rumors did not.

    Happy swabbing,

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  7. #17
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    Default From another forum......

    .........."This project has taken on a life of it's own. Long story short:

    The research institute has an ongoing project looking at the genetics of deafness in Cavaliers. One of the researchers contacted me about setting up a table to collect swabs at our Cavaliers of the Midwest show last month. During one of our conversations, she got really excited about additional research possibilities with MVD and SM. We then met with the research director to discuss possibilities and he asked us to collect 1000 samples. He would be able to tell from those samples if there was a research project there that they would be interested in doing. We began collecting samples from dogs at the show. On their own, people who were not part of the core group posted information on email lists and encouraged people to request swab kits and participate in this effort. Now we have been inundated with requests for swab kits. However, the lab will not send kits overseas, so this is limited to US dogs. And we already have more than 1000 requests for kits.

    We hope that this will lead to a study, however it is very early days"..........
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  8. #18
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    Ah - I just posted about this on the second thread here on the general health forum. But I didn't think it was okay to copy a direct quote from another message board, so I paraphrased the information.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  9. #19
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    For me this becomes a why not. All they are asking for is a swab reasearch is reasearch to me who knows why they'll find.

    Melissa

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    ... I finally found the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say on another message board - the company is simply collecting 1,000 cheek swabs at this point and they have no idea what, if anything, they will do with them. They haven't determined if there will be ANY study beyond the early deafness research. Thanks very much to the person who clarified this - I agree that this has taken on "a life of its own." The truth makes pretty good sense, the rumors did not. ...
    Yeah, I read the same message. Considering what I know about the gene research for SM being conducted in Montreal and elsewhere by Drs. Quoc-Huy Trinh, Marie-Pierre Dubé, Guy A. Rouleau, and Zoha Kibar, the MVD and SM aspects of this new effort sound pretty naive to me.

    It is amazing to me that 1,000 cavalier breeders will sign up for something like this in a few days, and yet so few breeders bother to follow the breeding protocols that have been around for several years -- MVD for 14 years and SM for 7 years. Surely no where near 1,000; not even 100; maybe a few more than 10.
    Rod Russell

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