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Thread: Meats That Digest Well for Cavaliers (possible pancreatitis)

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    Default Meats That Digest Well for Cavaliers (possible pancreatitis)

    My 7 month old Cavalier had an episode of vomiting repeatedly and it was just foam at the end. I took him immediately to the Vet and she said that there was a lot of fat (and some hair from toys - a mistake that has been corrected).

    We feed Bailey some 5 Star dry kibble and supplement it with fresh salmon (cooked) or rotisserie chicken (I pick the meat off and feed him only the meat; no skin or fat), and sometimes pieces of steak (no bone).

    She said the blood work showed that his pancreas might be slightly compromised and that the cells in the lining of his stomach that produces mucous might have been compromised as well.

    So she gave us a slurry that would aid stomach normalization and some nexium (for dogs) to reduce acid.

    I personally think I overfed him for two days and that this event was due to his stomach being overloaded and couldn't handle the digestion.

    Do Cavalier's generally have a problem with modest levels of fat - as in fatty fish, the miniscule of fat in a rotisserie chicken and the fat in a lean piece of beef?

    What do you think?

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    Hi and welcome.

    I think you have had a serious warning and are fortunate to have had a fairly safe 'red flag' incident like this to alert you. as the breed has a higher rate of pancreatitis than most other breeds and pancreatitis can be fatal. Fat or even 'regular' food can trigger an episode -- rottiserie chicken even though less fatty than fried, would I suspect have more fat absorbed into it by comparison to a skinless breast that has been steamed or baked without fat. Salmon is extremely fatty. So both of these could definitely have triggered the episode and if there are already signs of pancreatic affects -- you def need to have your vet look into the problem in the breed and I think most likely you will need to carefully watch what you feed and perhaps move to a special diet.

    There are many here who have had dogs have either a single episode (nearly fatal in a few cases) or who have this as an ongoing lifelong management issue and am sure they will come in with particular and far more informed advice. But I'd stop giving the meat immediately. Some foods also just seem to trigger problems -- chicken can be one, and someone here I recall had a dog who would get episodes just from the *smell* of foods but this is rare. Some dogs just have a single episode and never again but need to have their food monitored carefully.

    Pancreatitis by the way often occurs around big holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas when people and visitors give their dog trimmings off the meal and very fatty items like turkey skin or the beef roast fat trimmings.

    I've just edited the heading on your post so that others who know about pancreas issues will be sure to see it and offer their perspective.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
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    Fortunately I have never had a Cavalier with pancreatitis, but would simply add to what Karlin said, if you are feeding a good dry food designed for puppies it contains all the protein and nutrients your puppy needs and you don't need to supplement it with meat anyway. A little bit of lean chicken chopped on top as an occasional treat, fresh vegetables, a little drop of gravy if you happen to have some in the fridge - but a good amount of meat or fish simply isn't necessary. Plain biscuits look very boring to us, but they aren't to dogs!

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

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    Sorry to hear about Bailey's scare, but thank goodness this was only a minor episode.


    There is some good info on pancreatitis on the board, if you have a search eg

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...h-pancreatitis

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...e-Pancreatitis



    There is a lot of information about pancreatitis in cavaliers at

    http://cavalierhealth.org/pancreatitis.htm
    Nicki and the Cavalier Clan Our photos www.scotlandimagery.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    Hi and welcome.

    I think you have had a serious warning and are fortunate to have had a fairly safe 'red flag' incident like this to alert you. as the breed has a higher rate of pancreatitis than most other breeds and pancreatitis can be fatal. Fat or even 'regular' food can trigger an episode -- rottiserie chicken even though less fatty than fried, would more fat absorbed into it by comparison to a skinless breast that has been steamed or baked without fat. Salmon is extremely fatty. So both of these could definitely have triggered the episode and if there are already signs of pancreatic affects -- you def need to have your vet look into the problem in the breed and I think most likely you will need to carefully watch what you feed and perhaps move to a special diet.

    There are many here who have had dogs have either a single episode (nearly fatal in a few cases) or who have this as an ongoing lifelong management issue and am sure they will come in with particular and far more informed advice. But I'd stop giving the meat immediately. Some foods also just seem to trigger problems -- chicken can be one, and someone here I recall had a dog who would get episodes just from the *snmell* of foods but this is rare.

    Pancreatitis by the way often occurs around big holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas when people and visitors give their dog trimmings off the meal and very fatty items like turkey skin or the beef roast fat trimmings.

    I've just edited the heading on your post so that others who know about pancreas issues will be sure to see it and offer their perspective.
    Thank you all for your help. I will definitely reduce the amount of meat we feed bailey. He does have Orijen kibble and it is rated 5 star. There is a great debate and a lot of conflicting information about what dogs should be fed and many of the "authorities" say that home cooked meals are much better than commercial.

    I do boil chicken breast for him and I will reduce the amount considerably. I think I need to up the vegetable/fruit contents of his diet as well. Thanks again for your help.

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    Hi Jerry:

    I actually think you probably need to do more than that -- to have a talk with your vet or another very familiar with pancreatitis about the way to proceed, now that you have had an initial episode. The brand of kibble isn't as important in the case of this condition as the content -- eg as you'll see from other links dogs that have had a bout of pancreatitis generally need a low fat diet. Most commercial kibbles would be too high. Sometimes some meats need to be totally avoided as well -- I had one rescue cavalier who had these kinds of episodes if she ate any chicken.

    There are some good links in the thread to lots more information but cannot stress enough that you generally do need to carefully manage the diet of a dog with pancreatitis or a propensity towards it -- a bad episode can easily be fatal.

    Rod has some good info at his www.cavalierhealth.org linked to in some of the threads Nicki suggested reading.

    Hope this is just a once off but think you will need to take an active approach and go for a low fat diet and watch treat content etc.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    Hi Jerry:

    I actually think you probably need to do more than that -- to have a talk with your vet or another very familiar with pancreatitis about the way to proceed, now that you have had an initial episode. The brand of kibble isn't as important in the case of this condition as the content -- eg as you'll see from other links dogs that have had a bout of pancreatitis generally need a low fat diet. Most commercial kibbles would be too high. Sometimes some meats need to be totally avoided as well -- I had one rescue cavalier who had these kinds of episodes if she ate any chicken.

    There are some good links in the thread to lots more information but cannot stress enough that you generally do need to carefully manage the diet of a dog with pancreatitis or a propensity towards it -- a bad episode can easily be fatal.

    Rod has some good info at his www.cavalierhealth.org linked to in some of the threads Nicki suggested reading.

    Hope this is just a once off but think you will need to take an active approach and go for a low fat diet and watch treat content etc.
    I have been feeding him this kibble http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/puppy.aspx which is about 17% fat and 38% protein. It is highly rated and well reviewed. I am interested in what % of fat is considered "low fat" in a low-fat diet. He is now eating only some chicken with white rice. He is highly active and playful. He sleeps a lot early in the day and is a terror at night.

    I'm taking him back to the vet in a few minutes to make sure she thoroughly evaluates him for pancreatitis.

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    My eleven year old Tommy has been diagnosed with pancreatitis by a specialist researcher. His attack was brought on by a change to a high fat diet when a blood test showed kidney problems.

    I have been told he should be fed a diet and treats that have no more than 10% fat content.

    When calculating this you have to take off the moisture content and then calculate the fat content as a percentage of the solid ingredients left. For instance a tin of food showing 5% fat and 80% moisture ( therefore 20% solids ) does in fact have a fat percentage of 25%.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    As this is a medical condition, it's important to work with your vet or one familiar with pancreatitis and preventing further damage. While we are all making suggestions and offering some perspective from experience, it is important to see what you need to do in your individual case. I know if I were seeing an initial case that had caused some damage to the pancreas at a young age, I'd want a vet who really understands the condition and knows there seems to be an especially high incidence in this breed -- and that therefore it may be a chronic case and not a once off and therefore need dietary management.

    Here's info from your vet from the link I suggested at Cavalierhealth.org:

    The cavalier King Charles spaniel is one of two breeds believed to be predisposed* for chronic pancreatitis. In a 2005 report by UK researchers, they found:

    "There are strong breed-associations in CKCS and JRT, suggesting a possible genetic basis to the disease in these breeds."
    * The other breed is the Jack Russell terrier (Parson Russell terrier in AKC). See 2011 study report.

    This breed association has been confirmed in a 2007 UK report.
    There are links to those reports, which your vet may wish to read.

    Rod notes on his site:

    Mild cases with vomiting and dehydration may require oral or intravenous fluids and pancreatic rest, meaning no solid food, followed by a change to a more appropriate diet. Hospitalization may be required to assure proper treatment and rest.

    ...

    A long-term low fat diet, along with supplementary enzymes, likely will be recommended.
    Your vet should have discussed this with you at the time, but if she didn't, I'd ring and ask to get further advice, or perhaps see a different vet?

    On the other hand -- perhaps she didn't feel this was pancreatitis? This kind of vomiting isn't necessarily unusual but tests seem to indicate more is going on and for that reason I'd want to understand better what is going on, what she thinks, etc.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    I took Bailey back to the vet for further discussion; the Spec cPL test was extremely weak for Pancreatic Lipase so it may have just been a case where I fed Bailey too much food in a 48 hours period. I talked to my breeder, who has been breeding Cavalier for 17 years and she has never had one of her pups that had pancreatitis.

    Of course I overreact and think that overreaction is generally a good thing rather than being slow to react. I am now feeding bailey less (he is currently on small amounts of boiled chicken and rice - with some kibble - and he is doing fine. I deeply appreciate the careful consideration and information sharing of everyone on this site. I think Cavalier owners are special people, and if they are not when they get one they soon become special because a Cavalier will bring that out in you.

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