How long for cimetidine to work?

[AT]

I took one of the dogs to the out of hours vet with an infection & he ended up having a full MOT ( she called him interesting , i call him expensive dog who is going to give me a break down)
She noticed his leg tremors and that he scratches his shoulders when stroked plus the falling over ( which gets better after antibiotics for some reason) & suggested trying him on cimetidene to see if his mobility improved.

So I was wondering how long it takes to notice an affect if there is one. He's had 3 half tablets so far.

[MomObvious]

I'm confused. Cimetidene is used to treat stomach acid (at lease in humans) how would it improve mobility?? It is also a fast acting medication works within the first hour, normally.

[AT]

I'm confused. Cimetidene is used to treat stomach acid (at lease in humans) how would it improve mobility?? It is also a fast acting medication works within the first hour, normally.

It also reduces CSF .
She suggested he might have SM or some brain infection ( which apparently they can live with unlike humans who would be ill).
He has had pain episodes and and losing the use of his back legs but I thought that was a slipped disk. Until they xrayed him and his disks where fine. But he has so many problems its hard to tell what is causing what.

It probably isnt Sm but it is only an antacid really so it doesnt hurt to try

[Brian M]

Hi

Zitac (cimetidene ) is a CSF reducer but I would certainly go for an appointment with a Neurologist and
a possible MRI as to me it does sound like Sm/Cm sorry to say .

[AT]

Hi

Zitac (cimetidene ) is a CSF reducer but I would certainly go for an appointment with a Neurologist and
a possible MRI as to me it does sound like Sm/Cm sorry to say .

The scratching stopped almost straight away. i've been stroking him and tickling him but no response.

Usually vets give you a blank look when you mention Sm but she picked up on it straight away without me saying anything even though it was only slight , a tickly spot around his shoulders. I thought it was just where his harness sits or sore muscles he liked massaging.

She did suggest an MRI but i'm already spending about 100 a week on him and he has had so much done to him in his short life I dont want him going through more anisthetics and being prodded & poked when its not going to fix him ( she also suggested letting their resident orthepedic surgeon look at his knee. if I get anything else done i'd rather spend the money on that, though he has a double heart murmer now aswell )

I did mention him to the referal vet ( more because they do bone surgery too) when another dog of ours had an MRI last year but they where not interested, if they had had a suggestion I may have taken him for a consult but he is older now and has developed other problems since.

Despite everything he is a happy little dog and managing to go for little walks which at one point I thought he would never do again.

Anyway i'll discuss it with my own vet on friday & see what he thinks. obviously if it was meningitis or some other infection it may need further investigating but he has already had long courses of steroids and antibiotics which I understand is the treatment for those things so it may have been cured

[Kate H]

I find this a bit odd. Great that the scratching has stopped, but scratching usually means some irritation at least, and possible pain at worst, and I'm puzzled that Zitac should have this effect. It's primary use with dogs, as others have pointed out, is to reduce the amount of cerebral-spinal fluid circulating round the brain. With CM/SM the fluid circulates slowly and builds up in the ventricles and - as syrinxes - in the spinal cord, causing pain. But it takes more than a few days for Zitac to have any noticeable effect and it is definitely not a pain reliever - except indirectly in the long-term by reducing build-up and pressure. So I don't see that there can be any direct connection between starting Zitac and stopping scratching. There is slight evidence that over several months the use of a CSF reducer such as Zitac can prevent a syrinx getting worse, but researchers don't now seem to think that this really works. If your dog had been put on a neurological pain inhibitor such as gabapentin and neurological pain was the source of the scratching, then the stopping scratching would not be at all suprising - gabapentin can often act very quickly.

My own (strictly layperson's!) feeling is that starting Zitac and stopping scratching is a coincidence, and the scratching may have had some other, simpler, cause, as you originally thought. Scratching doesn't necessarily mean SM - many of the dogs on this forum with SM have never scratched (except at the odd flea, of course!), and those that do seem to have intense scratching, often 'air scratching', especially in moments of excitement and when out walking, not simply when being stroked.

Kate,Oliver and Aled

PS If you feel it might be CM/SM, you might consider a mini-scan, which is very much cheaper than a full scan (£250 or so rather than £2000!), which would tell you whether SM is present though not the full extent of any problem. Chestergates referral hospital, near Liverpool, do their mini-scans by sedation not anaesthetic, which is a major reason why I take my dogs there. A mini-scan has been enough to diagnose them as having SM - after that, you're only going to treat the symptoms anyway.

[AT]

My own (strictly layperson's!) feeling is that starting Zitac and stopping scratching is a coincidence, and the scratching may have had some other, simpler, cause, as you originally thought. Scratching doesn't necessarily mean SM - many of the dogs on this forum with SM have never scratched (except at the odd flea, of course!), and those that do seem to have intense scratching, often 'air scratching', especially in moments of excitement and when out walking, not simply when being stroked.

Kate,Oliver and Aled

PS If you feel it might be CM/SM, you might consider a mini-scan, which is very much cheaper than a full scan (£250 or so rather than £2000!), which would tell you whether SM is present though not the full extent of any problem. Chestergates referral hospital, near Liverpool, do their mini-scans by sedation not anaesthetic, which is a major reason why I take my dogs there. A mini-scan has been enough to diagnose them as having SM - after that, you're only going to treat the symptoms anyway.

Thanks kate , thats what I was wondering, I suppose it could be the pain relief injection or antibiotics she gave him ?

I dont think our local centre would accept him on a low cost day as his veins are damaged now so they have to use a back leg for IV. I know they like them quick and easy when they are doing a lot over a day.

[Sabby]

Just to say that my Harley has got SM and scratches only every other month but went lame on his front leg for 1 month and that’s how we found out that he has got SM and my Ebony that has not got SM but symptomatic CM scratches as soon as her medication is overdue. So you never know. Count yourself lucky that the vet even considered SM as many people still have to fight their vets to get SM recognised. Leg tremors and loosing the use of his back legs can also indicate SM.

You don’t need to have a scan if you can’t afford it if you see a neurologist for a consultation and they would think that your dog has SM most would be happy to give medication to see if it makes a difference. I don’t know what other things are wrong with your dog except the heart murmur but you mention steroids, antibiotics and pain injections. I just wonder if (except the murmur) all the other things are down to SM.

Just to say my SM & CM dog are all living a normal life. My CM dog has 3 degenerated discs, luxating patella and heart murmur. People would never know anything is wrong with them. BUT as everybody on here will tell you scratching (if coursed by SM) means pain.

[AT]

Just to say that my Harley has got SM and scratches only every other month but went lame on his front leg for 1 month and that’s how we found out that he has got SM and my Ebony that has not got SM but symptomatic CM scratches as soon as her medication is overdue. So you never know. Count yourself lucky that the vet even considered SM as many people still have to fight their vets to get SM recognised. Leg tremors and loosing the use of his back legs can also indicate SM.

You don’t need to have a scan if you can’t afford it if you see a neurologist for a consultation and they would think that your dog has SM most would be happy to give medication to see if it makes a difference. I don’t know what other things are wrong with your dog except the heart murmur but you mention steroids, antibiotics and pain injections. I just wonder if (except the murmur) all the other things are down to SM.

Just to say my SM & CM dog are all living a normal life. My CM dog has 3 degenerated discs, luxating patella and heart murmur. People would never know anything is wrong with them. BUT as everybody on here will tell you scratching (if coursed by SM) means pain.

I had a fight with my previous dog , she had bad skin so SM was only mentioned when she went lame and even then they refused to give me meds as they where human drugs ( & she never scratched or limped in the vet ) they did not use cimetidine back then.