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Thread: Kennedy MVD, SM and nose problems

  1. #21
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    Forgot to address the "cold room" aspect.

    Karlin - you have to understand what it's like to live in the "deep South." I completely understand what Anne was saying. In the winter, most of us have our thermostats set on 68 or 70, and in the summer (it was in the 80's yesterday in Atlanta), most of us set our thermostats at 75 or higher. This is to keep the gas and electric bills at a reasonable amount. (Also, the a/c can only cool the house to a certain temp when it is in the 90's outside.)

    I've had quite a few teen-aged dogs with advanced cardiac and respiratory diseases (including metastatic lung cancer). All of these dogs did much better when room temperature was around 68 (Farenheit - sorry, don't know celcius). They really struggle when temps are much higher than that. It is easier to breathe when the air is cooler and less humid. We talk about this alot in the yahoo canine CHF group.

    In that situation, I kept my central air set at 76, but I put a window air conditioning unit in my bedroom so that I can keep that room at 68 to 70. These older dogs with compromised breathing always sought out that "cold" room. It meant that I had to sleep with two or three blankets in the summertime! I'm sure that this is what Anne was describing.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  2. #22
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    Hi Pat -- Oh, I spent my high school years in California's central valley where we had plenty of days in summer well over 100 degrees, and many summers traveling in states or countries with heat and high humidity -- so I know what heat and humidity can be like!

    To me 68 degrees isn't really cold at all -- just a normal room temp depending on where you live (or normal range for air conditioning). As a matter of fact my house is normally a lot colder than that in Ireland. Right now it is 58 inside my house -- I just add a sweater. Heating is even more expensive in Europe.

    From the post I thought it sounded as if the room was being kept really, really cold. I wouldn't consider anything in the range of 60 on up to be really cold! Just air conditioned! So I stand corrected if that is the temp range implied and would think that's a lot more comfortable for a poor-heart dog than high heat.

    Also hadn't realised the dog had been seen so recently without heart issues of major concern, and the cardio was not thinking he needed meds. Agree that the line of this story and who said what, when, and what was done, is confusing. I hope Pat can give you some direct help.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  3. #23
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    Hey pat,

    I do not have your phone number. I definately would love to talk to you or it might be easier to talk to her. She works in the cubicle behind me.

    He had another bad night and she took him to the vet this morning. Another revenue things is he is having runny poop and this morning his poop was bright yellow.

    I would appreciate any help you can give.

    Thanks
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

  4. #24
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    I think this is the key information:

    I went with my friend to see cardiologist after vet said he had fluid in lungs on verge of CHF and prescribed vetmedin. Good thing because the good news is his heart is not bad. She saw tiny enlargement on one side but not concerned and said it would not be to the point where it would have caused fluid in lungs. She thinks that was due to something else. She had a print out of the heart and described everything. Kat asked about it being a grade 3 and she said it is more about the stage he is in and he is not close to being in CHF.

    What did concern her was his breathing. Kat did test of how many breaths he takes sleeping and it's very low which is good. However, she felt he was not able to get enough oxygen. She said she did not think it had anything to do with palette so she had another specialist look and his nostrils are closed or something. He is being left with specialist because this is probably why he stops breathing.

    He does have BAOS and had surgery but it never fixed anything. She (cardiologist) said holes looked enclosed/ slanted inward. He is staying there to have the specialist look more and talk about his options- surgery etc. She said it wouldn't have anything to do with palette but she was really concerned with him not getting enough air and so was the specialist.

    As far as being uncomfortable at night and restlessness (which could be from if he has CM/SM) she feels it is his breathing problems and to get that looked into.

    -------

    OK -

    We know that this is a good cardiologist, and I'm assuming that she did an echo, which would be definitive on the heart disease diagnosis. She has expressed concern that the physical abnormality (nasal stenosis) is causing serious issues.

    I think the GP vet is totally in over his head, so I wouldn't waste money there. The cardiologist has totally contradicted what the GP vet has said. Big red flag there for when Kennedy is actually in heart failure.

    Who was the "specialist" who examined the dog after the cardiology exam? Was this an IMS? What was diagnosis and treatment recommendation? I don't see that there was follow-up to this.

    The surgeon who did the soft palate surgery says this isn't the issue, which agrees with cardiologist opinion that it's not soft palate issue.

    The symptoms fit the diagnosis of upper airway disease.

    I would schedule a visit with cardiologist to make certain there has been no rapid change in heart status and then follow up with specialist (IMS?) on treatment and diagnosis of nasal stenosis. If there is not a surgical fix, there are perhaps some drugs that could help such as bronchodialators. But I suspect that this is a surgical fix. I think this is quite serious.

    I had asked if this dog is carrying some extra weight, and if so I would address that as it can make a big difference. I really suspect that this is all upper airway disease due to nasal stenosis/abnormality.

    I can talk tomorrow if you'll send me your phone number. I need to take care of dogs and get ready to see "Zorro" tonight at the Alliance Theater.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    To me 68 degrees isn't really cold at all -- just a normal room temp depending on where you live (or normal range for air conditioning). As a matter of fact my house is normally a lot colder than that in Ireland. Right now it is 58 inside my house -- I just add a sweater. Heating is even more expensive in Europe.
    It is 20 degrees warmer in my house right now, and I just turned on the a/c. Ceiling fans have been on all day. I could absolutely not function at all at a temperature of 58 degrees inside my house. I'd have to be in bed under several blankets with four dogs and a cat, and I'd still be shivering. Or I'd have to be running on the treadmill! We are not of hardy stock here in the Southeastern US!! I looked at average highs and lows in Ireland - there is not much fluctuation, is there? We have much greater temperature differences - even in the same week it can occasionally change as much as 40 degrees.

    I'm sure that Anne's reference to a "cold room" is a room that is warmer than 58 degrees!

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    I think the GP vet is totally in over his head, so I wouldn't waste money there. The cardiologist has totally contradicted what the GP vet has said. Big red flag there for when Kennedy is actually in heart failure.

    Who was the "specialist" who examined the dog after the cardiology exam? Was this an IMS? What was diagnosis and treatment recommendation? I don't see that there was follow-up to this.

    The surgeon who did the soft palate surgery says this isn't the issue, which agrees with cardiologist opinion that it's not soft palate issue.

    The symptoms fit the diagnosis of upper airway disease.

    I would schedule a visit with cardiologist to make certain there has been no rapid change in heart status and then follow up with specialist (IMS?) on treatment and diagnosis of nasal stenosis. If there is not a surgical fix, there are perhaps some drugs that could help such as bronchodialators. But I suspect that this is a surgical fix. I think this is quite serious.

    I had asked if this dog is carrying some extra weight, and if so I would address that as it can make a big difference. I really suspect that this is all upper airway disease due to nasal stenosis/abnormality.

    Pat
    Thanks Pat. To answer your question he does or has had a weight issue. She has been working on it and has gotten the weight down.

    I think she is frustrated because she took the next step the cardiologist suggested and her husband took him to see a veterinary surgeon on Monday. I was not there and I have asked her to have carolina vet specialts fax her his file but she hasn't. All she said was the appointment was a waste of time and he said there is nothing he can do. I wish I had more information.

    Actually her vet did the surgery for his elongated palatte. She had more information (or maybe I have more information) from her visit with the cardiologist. While he was in the back, she had the others look at him. I think the person that initially examined him is a different surgeon than the one she went to. The cardiologist mentioned that the specialist said there was scar tissue and something about the first surgery not completely doing what he feels needs to be done which is why surgery may need to be done. Since the appointment Monday really didn't address anything and the cardiologist doesn't feel it is the heart, she feels her vet is the only one that is addressing the problem.

    This is very serious and she said and I agree that it is really scary to see him not able to breath and when she turns to the specialists, she is getting nowhere. I would really like to see the report from his visit.

    Thank you so much for your time and help
    Anne Proud mother of Elton 5 and Angel Ella

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