pup had Sm since 8 weeks, what about other dogs????

[suzanne 74]

Hi everyone, my pup was diagnosed at 3 months old with CM and SM. He yelped a lot, scratched and cried when we picked him up, this was happening since day 1 when we picked him up at 8 weeks, He is on Gabapentin 50mg 3 x a day. He still have painful times. He had the brain surgery in January. This has helped a lot with his symptoms though not as much as we would have liked. I t is a very difficult and painful times, but he us still ful of fun and cuddles.

My question is how many have had an SM dog and also have another dog? My specialist says that being around other dogs is a good idea for him as will help him forget the pain. We have always wanted 2 dogs and are getting another. We have had other dogs in the house and he loves them and wants to play. How did others find their dog reacted to the sm dog when they were in oain and did the sm dog go for the other one when in pain?

Many thanks

[Love my Cavaliers]

I'm so sorry that your young pup has SM. I also have one dog with SM who had surgery 4+ years ago. My experience with Riley and my other dogs is that when she is in discomfort, she will remove herself from them. She will go someplace where their playing can't bother her. Most of the time I find her under a low table where they can't get to her. Sometimes it's just on a chair. If they're all outside and Oz, my youngest wants to play and comes running up to her, she will cower.

However, she has always been in a multi-dog household. She was my second dog. We got her at 11 months and we got her half-sister only 5 months later. She and Madison are like velcro. They sleep on top on each other and are always together unless Riley is in pain, and then she needs to be alone. Madison is almost totally deaf now and relies upon Riley particularly when they're outside to let her know when to come in. She sticks to her like glue outside and Riley is fine with that.

If I were you, I would probably look into getting an older more sedate dog, rather than a puppy, but I would wait until your pup has fully recovered from his surgery. I'm just afraid that a new pup might be too rambunctious for your dog who is still in recovery from surgery at this stage. It took Riley a good 6 months to settle down after surgery - for us to find the right combination of meds and for her recovery to be complete. I would still give it a bit more time and not rush it. Two months after surgery, Riley was just beginning to take normal walks. You may need to talk with your neurologist about trying different meds We tried so many different combinations before we found what worked best for Riley. Until then, I wouldn't even consider getting a new dog for a while. Let your pup recover fully. Then think about an older dog maybe. Just my two cents.

[suzanne 74]

Thanks, i see your point. it was the neurologist who said we would be better going for a pup rather than an adult dog. I spoke to him about what different meds there were, he said there were different ones but he is doing well on these so might as well stick to these. It's interesting you say it took 2 months for Riley to go for a proper walk. He was in the vets for a week after the op, they said we could take him out on short walks but only on lead straight away for the first 3 weeks then increase the walks and after 3 weeks we can let him off. He was desperate to be let off and hated being on lead for 3 weeks. However since the 3 weeks were up he has had a good 30 min free run everyday and darts around like you wouldn't believe. The specialist was very pleased with this and said not to hold him back!!!! Also if I remember right he slept most of the time when he was a pup and they would be supervised when together 100% of the time.
I can't believe I have only just found this forum the amount of people who have had a dog with sm amazes me and sadens me.

[Kate H]

I wouls agree with Bev. My Oliver wasn't diagnosed until he was 6, but in retrospect had symptoms long before that, one of which was being very careful not to be jumped on by other dogs playing roughly. He's very friendly, says hello and then just walks away. So probably with time your pup will develop similar strategies, but he needs time to grow up a bit, and as Bev says, recover fully from his surgery. I would also say an older dog rather than another puppy - SM can be a time-consuming disease, tweaking medication, and another puppy would in itself be a full-time job.

Hope your pup makes a good recovery,

Kate, Oliver and Aled (both with SM)

[anniemac]

I also agree with Bev. Ella was my only dog but she would also hide when she was in pain. I particularly remember being at a friends house where 2 cavaliers were and some people. I will never forget the look she had hiding underneath the table. I scooped her up and we went home.

I also agree that if you decide to get another dog, to look into an older sedate one. Ella did very well with Kennedy who is so calm you have to move him to get up. Elvis (the other cavalier) was a puppy or in his younger years and is wild. They did not do well with each other.

I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this.

[cavie3]

I too am very sorry to hear that your pup was diagnosed at only 3 months old. I am mum to a young pup who was recently diagnosed with symtomatic CM. We have 3 cavs in our household mine being the youngest at 10 months. When he is having good days he is pretty boisterous and very playful with the other dogs who are 3 and 2 years. He sticks to them like glue however as much as he loves them he has snapped at them a couple of times when he was in pain and we have had to keep them apart. The other dogs seem to understand now that if the little one takes himself to his crate in the other room when he is unwell they tend to leave him alone. Like the others have said if you were to introduce another dog then it may be better to get an older dog as a young puppy may prove to be too much for your little one to handle. I haven't any knowledge of recovery time from the surgery but as others have said it may be best to await a while.

[Karlin]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this in such a young dog.

I am a bit confused -- could you tell us more about what you mean by him still having painful times? What happens? Is it severe or moderate or mild...? If he is still having painful periods then it doesn't sound like he's doing very well on the meds he is currently on (maybe the dose...?). Or is it just very mild?

Also to be honest -- am a bit taken aback by the approach of the neurologist -- I do know some differ in how active they believe a dog can be post surgery, but this sounds.... incredibly active for three weeks after this surgery. I know a lot of people who found that their dogs overdid activity too early (and they would not have recommended the level of activity your neuro has okayed til months later...) and feel this led to the dog not doing very well post surgery. To let a dog run around as it pleases off lead only three weeks after this invasive surgery and tohave ben doing so many walks just seems... odd.

Also advising to get a puppy to help him forget he is in pain... Wouldn't it be better for the neurologist to work with his meds and try to find a combination that better addresses the actual pain? That's a very low dose of gabapentin for example... There are also many other meds most neurologists would add in as usually just one thing will not be adequate (many have said a 'cocktail' of two or three tends to work best at addressing pain). And if the neurologist thinks he still has pain... shouldn't he be working to address it more effectively?

A second dog can be a good companion but also can be way too much activity for a dog in pain. I cannot understand why a puppy would be recommended over an older, calmer dog. And agree that it is inappropriate to add a dog til your dog has had many more months to heal -- adding a dog can be very stressful and that is probably the last thing an SM dog still showing signs of pain needs...?

I guess I just am not agreeing with much of what you have been advised by this neurologist!! Goes very much against the recommended approaches of most that either I have dealt with or others have received advice from.

I would seriously wonder if the reason the recovery isn;t as you would like is simply that he has been far too overactive post-surgery and this may have caused setbacks?

Sorry to be that blunt but really am surprised at reading of this neurologist's approach and advice!

[suzanne 74]

I am now really confused and don't know what to do for the best. His symptoms are as follows.... He shakes his head a lot,(didn't do this before the op), scratches, sometimes drops down crying and biting his paws, growly and can be snappy very occasionaly, his eyes can be glazed and half closed sometimes. He sneezes a lot. He does suffer with headaches sometimes, we can tell this as his eyes are half closed and and he won't let you touch his head. He can't settle in the evening and sorts out a cool place to lie.
We are one min sure yes a pup will help then the next not sure at all. I am very scared about losing him and we are very close. I have been in a bit of a state over all of it and so also another dog would helpm with this. H

[Karlin]

Ok, those sounds like signs of significant pain. How old is he now?

I definitely would not consider adding a puppy when he is trying to cope with all this right now. Maybe in 6-12 months when you have had a better chance to assess his progress.

Personally I'd consider getting a second opinion from a different neurologist. No one should be leaving a dog with these signs without better medical management IMHO. especially as that dose of gabapentin is really the lowest initial recommended dose --unless he's still a small puppy? Then perhaps that is as high as can be given.

If he is showing all those signs I would think he very much needs better pain management and perhaps to have his activity levels more controlled and calmer. Especially as he seems to get headaches and doesn't want his head touched.

Does your neurologist work from Dr Clare Rusbridge's treatment algorithm?

http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/Syringomyelia/

[suzanne 74]

Vet says he has a very mild case as only had one syrinx on his spine but his symptoms have been quite bad especially before the op. I went to one in Newmarket, Suffolk