Raw food diets and chicken

[anniemac]

One friend will just give her cavalier bites of her raw chicken before she cooks dinner. I immediately thought salmenila but I have NO knowledge on raw food diets. She said her vet where she lived before said it was fine.

Now, I read Rod's website www.cavalierhealth.com and (I'm sorry Rod) but I feel awful for feeding Elton kibble now. I have to be honest and say I do not cook for myself but if I did it wood be for Elton but its not going to happen. A friend has sent me articles and links to Dr. Karen Baker and has been helpful in at least trying to help me choose dry food links that has comparisons. I JUST found a food that I notice a change in Elton with less scratching and digestion and would rather not change.

Now back to my friend. I imagine from the little bit I read, you would want to work with a licensed vet who specializes in holistic care or a veterinary nutritionist. Those who do raw food diets, can you feed raw chicken? Not that I'm going to but it was a discussion we have.

Now off to consult with my licensed holistic vet to make sure Elton is getting what he needs with new food b/c I'm a bad momma and know I probably will not prepare home food etc.

[RodRussell]

One friend will just give her cavalier bites of her raw chicken before she cooks dinner. I immediately thought salmenila but I have NO knowledge on raw food diets. She said her vet where she lived before said it was fine. ...

I don't recommend giving out raw meat as an indiscriminate treat. Meat -- raw or cooked -- needs to be balanced, particularly with a calcium source, when making home-prepared dog food.

We do not feed raw chicken muscle meat very often. We include chicken gizzards and livers in one of our recipes. Cooking the meat is not a bad thing -- it is better than kibble. An important factor is that the recipe is balanced, and that is a talent that needs to be learned. Until you can properly balance the recipe, I would stick with a good canned commercial brand, or a good frozen commercial raw brand.

[Sydneys Mom]

I would stick with a good canned commercial brand, or a good frozen commercial raw brand.

So Rod, are you saying, for those that don't do raw, that a good canned food, like Merriks, is better then using their dry food? I'm confused.......

[anniemac]

So Rod, are you saying, for those that don't do raw, that a good canned food, like Merriks, is better then using their dry food? I'm confused.......

Thank you! Me too. I thought I was doing fine with Fromms and was so excited it really helped Elton. However, reading what was said on cavalierhealth.com, sometimes things can be better tailored to the particular dog? Say for example hearts? I hate to start over with the holistic vet with diet but maybe I should. I guess they can look at the ingredients of what was in the food that Elton had?

One friend does a freeze dryed raw food? Food is just way over my head but it is an important factor in their health which I have been ignoring.

[RodRussell]

So Rod, are you saying, for those that don't do raw, that a good canned food, like Merriks, is better then using their dry food? I'm confused.......

From what I've read, most anything is better than kibble. There are so many downsides to kibble. First, most kibble is high in grains (including corn) and other carbohydrates because (a) they are cheaper than real meat and vegetables and (b) they hold together better than meats and vegetables in the dehydrated, over-cooked format which kibble is.

The meat source in a lot of kibble is highly suspect. You have to know the regulatory definitions of the ingredients of kibble to realize how bad the meat sources can be. For example, "animal protein" can mean just about any dead animal source you can imagine. "Animal by-products" and "poultry by-products" by definition does not include any muscle meat and can include parts that are eaten by humans in only in the most backward of third-world countries.

The cooking processes (most kibbles are cooked once and then cooked again) to make kibble kill a lot of the good nutrients and enzymes which dogs need for good health and proper digestion. So, whatever nutrients there are in the package have been added afterwards and are not the natural ones the dogs really can utilize most efficiently.

Dogs need a high percentage of moisture with their meals. Kibble provides hardly any moisture at all, so dogs have to supplement their kibble intake with gulps of water (assuming the dogs are smart enough to know that they need to add water to their meals). Raw diets of fresh meats and vegetables include the natural moisture which comes from the source of those meats and vegies.

Canned foods also provide that needed moisture, although it may not be all that natural, because any cookiing will remove a lot of moisture. Of course, you have to read the ingredients lists on the cans, but once you do and compare a few of them, it is relatively easy to pick out the better ones. We feed our dogs some Merrick canned foods when traveling or when we (temporarily) run out of our home-prepared raw foods, but not all of them are of high quality. We compared their ingredients lists to figure that out.

[RodRussell]

... However, reading what was said on cavalierhealth.com, sometimes things can be better tailored to the particular dog? Say for example hearts? I hate to start over with the holistic vet with diet but maybe I should. I guess they can look at the ingredients of what was in the food that Elton had? ...

When you make your own dog food, you can personalize it somewhat. For example, if you dog has a heart condition (or is prone to one, as all cavaliers may be), you can add beef heart to the recipe. Same with liver issues -- add chicken or calf liver.

Of course, commercial supplements, like Thorne's Bio-Cardio, can be added to any foods.

[cpell009]

I recently switched to dehydrated/freeze dried raw but I am currently mixing with about 30% Orijen 6 fish kibble with Pet Kelp Priobiotic supplement and sometimes a spoonful of plain yogurt. I also give fresh fruits and veg as treats and give them chicken necks or rabbit spines in place of 1 meal a couple times a week. I tried adding in fresh tripe and I feel terrible but my stomach just couldn't handle it.

The idea of homemade raw is really intimidating to me and like you I barely spend time cooking for myself so it isn't really sustainable on a daily basis. I also have next to zero freezer space. I found the dehydrated raw a good alternative because although it's not the optimal nutrition compared to fresh or frozen raw, it is better than kibble.

There is a place called Posh Nosh in my area that makes prepared frozen raw food. Maybe there is something similar in your area. They have stuff like mango chicken casserole, ground meat with bone, different organ meats, pureed fruits and vegetables, all types of raw bones, etc. etc. They are already portioned out so you can just take one out of the freezer as needed. I tried feeding this to my girls but it REALLY upset Gracie's stomach so that's how I ended up with the dehydrated raw. It's working really well for them so far but then again I never had any issues feeding them just Orijen.

I've used two types so far: NRG and Honest Kitchen. From what I have read on review sites (to be taken with a grain of salt I know) it seems HK might have better ingredients. Based on the dry texture and smell though it seems like the NRG has more substance to it - HK is more like sawdust consistency until you add water. I buy small bags every couple weeks and rotate the type of protein.

The only thing I don't like about the dehydrated raw is I like to give Lady's food in the Kong Wobbler every morning, and this can only be done with kibble which is why I've kept Orijen in the mix.