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Thread: New to this forum & newly diagnosed CM & SM in NY USA.

  1. #11
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    Thank you all so much. My neurologist is Dr Georgina Barone at Veterinary Medical Center of Long Island. She did explain to me that Xylitol is in the Gabapentin that you would get at a regular pharmacy but the GABA I get from their office, since it is given to dogs, does NOT contain Xylitol. The reason we started him on the liquid is because he is so allergic & sensitive to many medications & vaccines, her thought was it would be easier to adjust for him. So we started him on .6 ml which didn't do much, so we increased it to 1ml 3 times a day, after 2 days he needed to start Tramadol. He was originally on a very low does of steroids which completely knocked him out, totally lethargic. The only reason Dr Barone didn't recommend LIV is because of the support & aftercare staff. The doctors at LIV including Dr Marino are supposed to be wonderful. She recommended the neurologists & staff in Redbank NJ. It's about 2hrs from us so it's not too bad. If we are going to consider the surgery & the expense then I would rather go with the best reputation all around. Thank you for all your advice & I will check out the Clare Rusbridge site. I'm not convinced he's on the right med cocktail right now. I can tell when the meds are wearing off & he definitely reacts more during periods of atmospheric pressure. He also has a problem on some nights getting comfy. I'll keep you posted. Oh & Livcav I am on eastern Long Island.

  2. #12
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  3. #13
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    Ahhh he's very sweet.

    It's not that there's an issue with liquid gabapentin as far as I'm concerned (I also think the xylitol levels are very low when it is there in human gabapentin but wish this would be investigated for using these meds in animals).... it's that I don't know how to compare the dose to capsules. It just makes it harder to get a sense of what a dog is on (eg low, medium or high dose).

    Clare's algorithm is useful as it runs through a lot of the options. She thinks steroids should really only be a choice when there are no other options because there are so many potential side effects that also can make things harder for the owner -- eg the dog is often always hungry and becomes even more naggy than cavaliers tend to already be about food. If you get to the limit of what you can use with gabapentin and adding in some other things doesn't help, I'd certainly discuss trying Lyrica which tends to work when gabapentin cannot do enough. And Clare would generally always include a CSF inhibitor like cimetidine.

    Some dogs do take a lot of back and forth adjustment to get meds right.

    Different neuros take different approaches to surgery as well and I really think they all work about the same. I'd take claims of superior results with any one approach, with a grain of salt. I know of dogs that have gone through one of those surgical techniques with high claims, that have a seriously hard time in recovery, and also, all the dogs I know of remain on medications despite claims that few do. So for me, what I hear from owners does not fit the claimed results, for whatever reason. I am guessing that many people who continue to have difficulty do not return to inform the clinics they went to but instead they work with their vet (costs less) so maybe the feedback is incomplete.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    Ahhh he's very sweet.

    It's not that there's an issue with liquid gabapentin as far as I'm concerned (I also think the xylitol levels are very low when it is there in human gabapentin but wish this would be investigated for using these meds in animals).... it's that I don't know how to compare the dose to capsules. It just makes it harder to get a sense of what a dog is on (eg low, medium or high dose).
    You must have missed my posts with the links about dosage and the amount of xylitol - this boy is taking 50 mg of gabapentin three times a day, so it's a low dose. 1 ml is equal to 50 mg.

    And there is information on how much xylitol is contained and the effect on dogs, and it is not insignificant:

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...-Toxic-to-Dogs

    Folks reported back that they were not using "human" gabapentin but were having it compounded because of this issue.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  5. #15
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    Yes I am using the Gabapentin supplied by my neurologist which she assures me her supply does not contain Xylitol.

  6. #16
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    So I've been communicating with Winston's breeder & she informed me that both his parents(whom I met) are free of SM, CM & Mitral Valve issues. I must say I shopped around extensively for the best breeder I could find & when we did meet her she was very helpful. She invited to meet her at a dog show to point things out to us. She brought her champion to hang out with us. When we went to pick Winston out at 6 weeks she had us take off out shoes & coats and she had us wash our hands with detergent that contained bleach. Of course she wouldn't let Winston leave until 8 weeks old. So she emailed me telling me how devasted she is over this news & that her & her husband would like to offer us a puppy from her next liter. I am dumbfounded! It's an extremely generous offer since I know she charges $2500.-$3000. for her puppies but I feel at this time I really need to focus on Winston & his care. What do you think of this?

  7. #17
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    If this is a good breeder who did fully health test, then it is a generous and kind gesture. If you feel able for a cavalier -- realising the breed is always at risk of these conditions -- then of course you could consider the offer.

    On the other hand -- I am sorry to say this, but I would not take a breeder's word that she has tested. I would ask if you can see the scan information from both parents. There are many, many people who breed cavaliers who will say they are health testing, doing MRIs, the proper heart tests etc and they actually are not. Poor breeders and backyard breeders have quickly realised this might be a selling point and probably rightly assume 99% of buyers will never ask to see any actual certs and confirm they are real and valid. The other thing is -- just having the parents free of MVD doesn't tell too much. To be breeding her dogs at under age 5 she needs to know that all four grandparents remained mumur-free until at least age 5, if she is using the heart results properly. A good breeder will definitely be doing this too.

    If you go out to talk to her about another puppy I'd also ask if you can see the certs for the various parent dogs. Any good, caring breeder will be happy to share them and explain them to you.

    Much depends on the age of the scan. Too many breeders are scanning when dogs are under 2.5 which is too young for a useful result to use for breeding purposes. Also if the dam or sire was now, say 5 or 6 and the scan was done at 2.5 then she'd actually have no idea if sM had developed in the meantime. The best situation is to have a parent scanned again at around 5 (and this is the information most meaningful to a breeder's future breeding programmes, too -- our Rupert's Fund has moneyto help cover costs of scans on dogs 5-6 and older for breeders.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    You must have missed my posts with the links about dosage and the amount of xylitol - this boy is taking 50 mg of gabapentin three times a day, so it's a low dose. 1 ml is equal to 50 mg.

    And there is information on how much xylitol is contained and the effect on dogs, and it is not insignificant:

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/s...-Toxic-to-Dogs

    Folks reported back that they were not using "human" gabapentin but were having it compounded because of this issue.

    Pat
    Oh thanks Pat! I have said before that I really need to bring your many extremely useful posts together... maybe have a Pat health library!

    There's xylitol in many of those anti-tartar liquids you add to pet water too...

    Thanks for the dose comparison.

    You are right: that is a very low dose of gabapentin.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  9. #19
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    Thanks Ladies I will definitely follow your advice & keep you posted.

  10. #20
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    We were just diagnosed with a trifecta....s/m, c/m and pmos....we are having surgery next wednesday....at LIVS with Dr. Marino and Dr. L. I, of course, have been booked on my vacation for over a year. My adult children will handle this for me and I will be getting updates via email every day. My dog is 2.5 and I'm hoping and praying this is the way to go. Only time will tell.

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