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Thread: Unregistered puppies and the cavalier clubs' Code of Best Practice

  1. #1
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    Default Unregistered puppies and the cavalier clubs' Code of Best Practice

    There are interesting discussions on several different internet forums and blogs about health testing and how unregistered puppies add to the difficulty of knowing quite how many cavalier puppies are born every year.

    A well known breeder has just chided a newcomer for suggesting that this is againt the Cavalier Club's Code of Best Practice ( formerly called their 'Code of Ethics' and still widely described as such )

    The breeder maintained that:

    "when it comes to relevant paperwork for a puppy bred by a CKCS Club member, this is how the Club version reads:

    " All members who breed or exhibit must at the time of sale furnish the new owner with a diet sheet, a record of all inoculations and wormings carried out. The pedigree, Kennel Club registration and signed transfer documents shall also be supplied, UNLESS A WRITTEN AGREEMENT IS MADE AT TIME OF SALE THAT THE PAPERS ARE TO BE WITHHELD AND/OR CONDITIONS IMPOSED "


    This is incorrect and the cavalier club committee member is quoting from an out of date version ( in fact it is the old C of E ) to make an erroneous point.

    The paragraph quoted did not allow for puppies to remain unregistered. In fact both the old & new versions had the same conditions. ALL puppies should be registered with the KC. They can be endorsed if it is thought necessary.


    I have added the relevant part of the new Code of Best Practice:


    • Register with the Kennel Club all surviving puppies by the time they reach the age of twelve months.



    • Endeavour to obtain a Restricted Registration certificate to prevent breeding from any puppy exhibiting such faults that are or may be of a hereditary nature, so that to breed from such a dog may be detrimental to the dog itself or to the breed in general.



    • Not part with a puppy under the age of eight weeks to a new owner.



    • Will ensure that all relevant Kennel Club documents are provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a dog, and will agree, in writing, to forward any relevant documents at the earliest opportunity, if not immediately available unless a written agreement is made at time of sale that papers are to be withheld and/or conditions imposed. (Refer to KC Code, item 12)



    • Will supply written details of all dietary requirements, a record of all inoculations and worming carried out and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing dogs in a new home. (Refer to KC Code, item 11)



    • Should not, under any circumstances, make false or exaggerated claims that cannot be substantiated, for example, about future prospects of puppies, quality of breeding stock, or record of show wins.



    • Use best endeavours to ensure that all stock is healthy at time of sale, unless agreed otherwise and put in writing and acknowledged by the purchaser, such stock having been checked for known hereditary and other health problems and the purchaser being given full access to the results.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    Yeah, interesting. "Best Practice" what a joke how about some real health testing requirements?????????? Oh wait that is NOT the point of KC, yet they blab about these dogs being "the best examples of the breed" only babble in weather the dog or whole breed is healthy.

    Tracking the number of cavalier or any other breed of pups would be helpful........but I don't even understand why its important to the club to have that information.

    This is why cavalier health is not changing because some "well known breeder" has her head up her tail and is spouting off incorrect information, bulling others, AND refuses to educate herself on anything BUT what she "knows"!!!!! Things change, research advances get with it. "Best Practices" "Code of Ethics" just touch the very surface of what a good breeder should be.




    I hope you corrected the misinformation.
    Melissa
    "If you don't own a dog, at least one, there is not necessarily anything wrong with you, but there may be something wrong with your life."
    -Roger Caras

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    The breeder obviously cannot understand what is clearly written in the Club Code. It states quite categorically that all surviving puppies should be registered by 12 months.

    If a breeder chooses to withhold the registration papers or impose conditions, that is a different matter. The puppy will still be registered and will appear in the records.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    This thread made me curious, so I have attempted to investigate.

    On the Cavalier Club site, I found a document dated April, 2011, which contains the Kennel Club Code of Ethics and the Cavalier Club Code of Best Practice. Here is a copy and paste from this:

    Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club Code of Best Practice April 2011
    Page 1 of 6
    THE KENNEL CLUB GENERAL CODE OF ETHICS (MANDATORY) AND
    CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIEL CLUB CODE OF BEST PRACTICE

    Then the KC Code items are listed, and there is no language about required registration for every puppy produced.

    At the end of the list of KC Code items, there is a statement that:

    Breach of these provisions may result in expulsion from club membership, and/or disciplinary action by the
    Kennel Club and/or reporting to the relevant authorities for legal action, as appropriate.

    Next is a list of the Cavalier Club Code of Best Practice items, which includes the provision that every puppy is to be registered.

    There is no language at the end of that list about any ramifications if the provisions are not followed.

    My question:

    Is the Cavalier Club Code of Best Practice mandatory for club members? I know that the CKCSC USA Code of Ethics provisions are (at least the last time I checked) mandatory requirements for the members of that club. But it's not clear to me whether the UK Cavalier Club's Code of Best Practice items are mandatory or if they are rather "best practice" recommendations. There are important provisions in the Best Practice list such as the maximum number of litters in the lifetime of a bitch, minimum and maximum breeding age of bitch, etc. These provisions are mandatory for CKCSC USA breeders, and now I'm wondering if these are NOT mandatory for UK Cavalier Club breeders.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

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    Quote Originally Posted by MomObvious View Post
    This is why cavalier health is not changing because some "well known breeder" has her head up her tail and is spouting off incorrect information, bulling others, AND refuses to educate herself on anything BUT what she "knows"!!!!!

    Actually, if you read that particular thread, the quoted breeder was advocating mandatory EF/CC DNA tests on both parents before Kennel Club registration of any puppies. She said that if the Kennel Club was serious about improving health (rather than worried about losing revenue from breeders who would simply go elsewhere to register their puppies), they would make these DNA tests mandatory. I agree with that opinion.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

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    The KC Code of Ethics does not demand that all puppies be registered. The Cavalier Club Code of Best Practice does. The Club Code is not mandatory, but Cavalier Club members do specifically agree to abide by them when they submit an application form for membership.

    The Cavalier Club Code of Best Practice states all surviving puppies must be KC registered but a Cavalier Club committee member took a newcomer to task for saying so.

    Quoting from an out-of-date version she wrote:

    " All relevant Kennel Club documents are provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a dog, and will agree, in writing, to forward any relevant documents at the earliest opportunity, if not immediately available UNLESS A WRITTEN AGREEMENT IS MADE AT TIME OF SALE THAT THE PAPERS ARE TO BE WITHHELD AND/OR CONDITIONS IMPOSED "

    You clearly did not know the wording of the Code of Best Practice, so I've pointed out (above) the requirements of the Club to their breeder members"

    In fact the newcomer was correct.

    I agree that the DNA tests should be made mandatory. In the meantime it would help if the cavalier clubs would ask the KC to add these two tests to the Assured Breeders Scheme.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Actually, if you read that particular thread, the quoted breeder was advocating mandatory EF/CC DNA tests on both parents before Kennel Club registration of any puppies. She said that if the Kennel Club was serious about improving health (rather than worried about losing revenue from breeders who would simply go elsewhere to register their puppies), they would make these DNA tests mandatory. I agree with that opinion.

    Pat
    While I agree with this as well, I still get a little burned when I see a breeders web site listing them as " A Merit Breed" with the AKC in MY opinion being a member of the CHIC program should be minatory to considered a "merit" breeder. I do like the CHIC program however, I wonder sometimes about that since its voluntarily...

    As a simply cavalier owner no involved in showing at all, I believe it is a club tacit meant to mislead people. Again as a newcomer to the breed I look specifically to these clubs to provide me good information about the breed or one would think.
    Melissa
    "If you don't own a dog, at least one, there is not necessarily anything wrong with you, but there may be something wrong with your life."
    -Roger Caras

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    Quote Originally Posted by MomObvious View Post
    While I agree with this as well, I still get a little burned when I see a breeders web site listing them as " A Merit Breed" with the AKC in MY opinion being a member of the CHIC program should be minatory to considered a "merit" breeder. I do like the CHIC program however, I wonder sometimes about that since its voluntarily...

    As a simply cavalier owner no involved in showing at all, I believe it is a club tacit meant to mislead people. Again as a newcomer to the breed I look specifically to these clubs to provide me good information about the breed or one would think.
    I would not put much weight on the CHIC program for cavaliers. Unfortunately, CHIC not only does not work for cavaliers; it actually encourages bad breeding practices and allows bad CKCS breeders to hide behind the CHIC "Good Housekeeping" seal.

    All CHIC requires for MVD is that the breeding stock be examined by a veterinary cardiologist. It does not require that the results of the examination show no mitral valve disease. A cavalier of any age can be examined, flunk the exam, and still qualify for a CHIC certificate and be bred!

    CHIC has no requirements at all for SM. As far as CHIC is concerned, syringomyelia is not a problem in the breed, and any cavalier may be bred without testing for it, much less found not to have it.
    Rod Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by MomObvious View Post
    While I agree with this as well, I still get a little burned when I see a breeders web site listing them as " A Merit Breed" with the AKC in MY opinion being a member of the CHIC program should be minatory to considered a "merit" breeder. I do like the CHIC program however, I wonder sometimes about that since its voluntarily...
    Be careful with CHIC dogs, as they don't actually have to pass the tests to get a CHIC number. The dog only has to have the test done and sent in to OFA. But I agree, I like the CHIC program and I would like to see more breeders with CHIC numbers on their dogs.

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