very bad heart issue and teeth removal :(

[duseskiz]

hi everbody,

I really need your advice for my friend's 7 years olad rescue cavalier, Suslu. She is rescued from a shelter and has bad health issues. She probably has sm, my friends could not have her mri scan because of her health problem. she firstly wanted to know how bad her heart and a cardiologist examined Suslu saying she had C2 level (in Turkey might be different scaling) MVD. She also wanted to have suslu's teeth cleaned and some of them removed (her teeth are at really really bad condition) as teeth effect the hearth and went another vet for it after 2 months. the second vet did all examination, cheching etc. yesterday for teeth and said Suslu's heart rate was like the most 168 and the least 143 He said he could not operate her with this heart rate, if he would Suslu probably wont wake up

My friend is now in dilemma. Suslu's teeth has to be done, otherwise they will keep effect her heart badly day after day. On the other hand, her heart is not strong enough to have anestesia. We are trying to find a way to follow, we thought about removal operation without anestesia but we dont want to put her in pain as lots of teeth might be removing :S

I asked my friend to have Suslu's teeht photo to Show you how bad her teeth are. I hope she could manage to take. So, any idea is appreciated for us cos we are sooo desperate Thank you...

Ebru
Istanbul,Turkey

[RodRussell]

Ebru, the ACVIM Consensus Statement on MVD has a Stage C. See the article here: http://cavalierhealth.org/images/acv...ccvhd_2009.pdf Stage C is the "congestive heart failure" stage, and C2 probably means that the dog is being treated at home rather than in a vet clinic.

In the USA, there are some people trained in non-anesthetic cleaning. It is not at all as effective, and some vets have criticized its lack of thoroughness. But in this circumstance, it may be the solution. Here is a link to a site about it: http://petdentalservices.com/

[duseskiz]

Thank you Rod, i will look at the links. At this point we are all open to new ideas...Thank you again...

[Emkaybee]

I would suggest finding a school of veterinary medicine if there is one is Istanbul. Her heart may be too fragile for surgery, but my understanding is that veterinary anesthesia has progressed to the point where it such surgeries can be done relatively safely. In any case, a vet school would give you access to specialists in heart disease and in anesthesia. Good luck and best wishes to the little dog.

[Karlin]

I also would note that Pat has pointed out in some previous threads, that the link between dental health and heart issues has been disproven. I have two with so-so heart health and bad teeth but my vet does not recommend aneasthetic even though neither is medicated for the heart issue. He's suggested using an enzyme gel for the teeth.

[duseskiz]

Yes, there is a a school of veterinary medicine in Istanbul but i am afraid it is not as well equipped as needed. ohhh God, it is really hard for me to discribe but we prefer to take our babies to special clinics other then the veterinary school in Turkey. However, my friend took Suslu to a lecturer of the school. My friend said to me yesterday that Suslu has began to take Vetmedin, later on the cardiologist check on her hearth again if it is ok for the surgery ( Thank you Emkaybee...

[duseskiz]

I also would note that Pat has pointed out in some previous threads, that the link between dental health and heart issues has been disproven. I have two with so-so heart health and bad teeth but my vet does not recommend aneasthetic even though neither is medicated for the heart issue. He's suggested using an enzyme gel for the teeth.

i will look out enzyme gel, is it like Petzlife or something?

[pippa]

My Pippin had his teeth cleaned without anaesthesia, but as others have said it is not as effective but like Karlin's vet and your friends vet mine will not put Pippin under any form of anaesthesia no matter how light. I use an enzyme toothpaste, I have tried different one's but haven't found one I am completely happy with yet.

Pippins teeth are not rotten but have a lot of plaque build up, which seems to keep coming back no matter how much I clean or brush.

Karlin what enzyme gel do you use?

[Karlin]

OK, here's an easy to understand summary from the well respected Mayo Clinic in the US -- when studies were reviewed in 2012, no definite connection was found between heart disease and gum disease.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hea...ention/AN02102

And an article in the press:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-debunked.html

On the enzyme gel -- my vet supplied it and said it works better than brushing, he thought. He gave me Dentisept to try.

[duseskiz]

OK, here's an easy to understand summary from the well respected Mayo Clinic in the US -- when studies were reviewed in 2012, no definite connection was found between heart disease and gum disease.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hea...ention/AN02102

And an article in the press:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-debunked.html

On the enzyme gel -- my vet supplied it and said it works better than brushing, he thought. He gave me Dentisept to try.

ok, i am reading them now, thank you Karlin...