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Worried about my 7 month old puppy

bernice

Member
Sorry for repeated the thread but I realised that it is better to post here since it is more topic related.

Hi all,


I am a ckcs owner from Malta. My little baby is just 7 months of age and i love her to bits. My baby's name is Bliss! Bliss always had a habit of biting her hind quarters. As time went by she also started to scratch and sometimes she also yelped and turned towards her hindquarters. This yelping only lasted for a split of a second. I have watched videos of cavalier affected from syringomelia and although my bliss' symptoms are not as severe as those watched in videos it is still very similar.

I am very worried my first vet told me she had full anal glands and he emptied them for her. The second vet said she has an allergy. He checked for lux patella and hip dysplasia and they are fine. Now I tried another vet and told me that probably she has SM deducing this from the symptoms I described.

Please note in my country we have no MRI and we have no neurologists + the insurance is not very good. Therefore I cannot be sure if it is sm or not and surgery is not possible


Yesterday I visited a new vet and he does not think that this condition is rare like most vets think in Malta. However he still does not have the machinery to test for it. He gave me rimadyl for when she is in pain, however her pain does not lost for more than a second so I don't know when I should give it to her.

Is there someone who can help me out there? I am very lost !
 
Hi Bernice, sorry you are having concerns about Bliss and SM. It does sound like your vets are eliminating other conditions which can also present the symptoms you are describing. The only sure way to diagnose CM/SM is by MRI scan and most dogs symptoms can be managed with medication. Clearly something is irritating Bliss for her to cry out and I would certainly monitor this, in the first instance try to video the scratching episodes and gather evidence of any unusual behavior to show to your vet. With CM/SM every dog is individual, some have many symptoms and others may only present a few. It is also possible that symptoms can be present in a young pup, you said the yelping lasts for a split second but what about the scratching? I know with Kookie (he has CM) he had symptoms from 16 weeks, usually he would have episodes of pain but the scratching was excessive and he would cry out sometimes when I picked him up. Trust your instinct as you know your girl best and if you feel it necessary discuss with your vet if there are any vet neurologists who could examine Bliss and perhaps trial medication.
 
I'm sorry that you're worried about Bliss (cute name). Probably the best thing to do is to download the treatment algorithm for SM and take it to your vet and work up a treatment plan for her. http://sm.cavaliertalk.com/Treatment algorithim (Syringomyelia made simple).pdf Gabapentin (neurontin) is the first line drug in the treatment CM/SM. Generally if you see a decrease in her scratching after starting Gabapentin, that's often diagnostic for CM/SM. I wish you the best.
 
I would agree with Bev - if Bliss seems to be in pain, start her on gabapentin and if this reduces the pain (and it usually works very quickly), this is a pretty good indication of the presence of Chiari malformation and possibly also a syrinx. Gabapentin is a neurological pain control which doesn't work on, for example, muscular pain. It is not a pain killer, so it's no use just giving it when Bliss shows signs of pain, it needs to be given several times a day as 'blanket coverage'. The usual starting dose is 100mg twice a day, though most dogs seem to do better on three times a day. Clare Rusbridge's treatments plan that Bev mentioned will help you and your vet to plan the best medication for Bliss; even if you could have CM/SM confirmed with a scan, you are still going to just treat the symptoms, unless surgery was indicated and that is not always the right thing for every dog. It is also usual to start giving a diuretic such as cimetedine (Zitac) or omeprazole to reduce the accumulation of cerebral-spinal fluid in the brain. Many, if not most, Cavaliers with CM/SM are well controlled with medication, though as the disease is progressive the medication needs to be reviewed regularly and dosage adjusted or a different drug used. Gabapentin is a widely-used human drug (I take it myself for a completely different disease!), so it should not be too difficult to get in Malta. If you are not insured, you may find it cheaper to buy through an online pharmacy; fortunately neither gabapentin nor Zitac are very expensive.

Best of luck,

Kate, Oliver (aged 12 with CM/SM) and Aled (aged 6 with CM/SM)
 
Sorry I couldn't write more yesterday but my computer was acting up. I would have loved to have said all that Kate said, but she just said it all so beautifully right now. So thank you Kate for saying what I couldn't say yesterday.
 
Thanks for your help,

The thing is that her yelp usually lasts for only a split of a second and there where cases when she yelped twice in a week and other cases where she did not help at all. What I noticed is that when she yelps she immediately turns to her hindquarters.

With regards to her scratching, she usually scratches for few seconds and when I call her to come and play, she stops immediately. I took a couple of videos of her scratching. However the situation in Malta is very difficult the vets are not well informed of cm and sm and they don't know the difference between them.

I have a query... so it is best to start on gabapetin? and can you tell me the dose for a 7 month old puppy. And if symptoms reduce it would be indicative of her having sm? so that I tell the vet about it.
 
It might be helpful to email Clare Rusbridge ([email protected] or [email protected] - not sure which one she uses) and ask her where your nearest neurologist is - there may be one on the nearest mainland, for example, that you could email or even phone and have a chat, tell him/her about Bliss's symptoms and get some expert advice. They could then discuss treatment with your local vet.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Thanks I contacted Dr. Rusbridge however I haven't heard anything from her, maybe it is the Christmas period. Lately she did not yelp, however she did 3 very short air-scratches during the last 4 days which is worrying me a lot! On the whole she never seemed to be in pain.

However since in Malta we do not have a neurologists i feel really lost!
 
I expect Dr Rusbridge is off work over Christmas - I hope she is, because she works extremely hard and is so good at helping our SM Cavaliers. I'm sure she will get back to you once she is back at work in the new year. If the Mediterranean is having the same sort of weather as we are having in Britain, with the air pressure going up and down in huge leaps, that may be why Bliss has been a bit scratchy - it really does affect dogs with CM/SM.

I hope you will be able to find some answers in the new year,

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Lady used to jump and turn to her hindquarters as well but it was related to a patella (knee) issue, and she's mostly grown out of it. Like Bliss, it only seemed to last for a quick second and she went completely back to normal. Just a thought...
 
What is worrying the most is the air scratching it does not happen when she is on the lead it usually happens when we are at home. Sometimes she tends to sit down and her leg starts doing like scratching movements sometimes with skin contact and sometimes without skin contact. Sometimes while she is moving she turns round to look at her feet and there was an instance were her feet started to move.

In the mean time someone replied to me on the behalf of dr.rusbridge and they are very nice. I will be sending them some videos to see!

But I have a bad feeling from what I have read that the air scratching symptom is clearly a symptom of SM which worries me a lot since she is only 7 1/2 months now !!!! I know at the moment she is full of life and always on the go but I am fearing what might happen. I don't want her to suffer in the future!!! she is my little baby the perfect dog in every sense and in the mean time my head is going to explode with my worrying!
 
Dear Bernice

Try not to worry too much - I know, easy to say! But generally, a diagnosis of SM is not a death sentence. There are a lot of medications that can be tried and can be very effective in controlling pain and discomfort, and the dog can live a normal life. And as others have said, there are other things the scratching could be, besides SM. My Oliver has had SM from quite a young age (probably about 2 years old), though he wasn't officially diagnosed until he was 6. He's now 12 and although he has other age-related problems, he has very little pain from his SM and still enjoys life. Aled, my other Cavalier, also has SM, but again it is well-controlled by meds and he is full of life and enjoys himself.

I'm glad you are in touch with Dr Rusbridge - it is so important for Bliss to be treated by a neurologist if she does have SM; vets can't be experts in every canine ailment and probably don't get much experience of SM in Malta!

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Hi All,

With the help of a doctor from fitzpatrick and my vet they have decided that the symptoms are of SM therefore we are going to treat her as SM (we cannot have a confirmation) but with the frequency of the scratching, air scratching and lately during the past week she yelped twice when I touched her head (the yelps were very very short). However I have a big problem gabapetin is not available in my country. Do you have an idea of how can I ship it to malta? I have loads of friends in the UK as well.

I would appreciate any help.

Thankssss
 
If Bliss does have SM, then you should see a very rapid improvement with the gabapentin, because SM produces neurological pain and gabapentin specifically targets that. I get my gabapentin from a reliable UK on-line pharmacy called Hyperdrug. They charge about £14.60 for 100 x gabapentin 100mg and might be able to send it directly to you. You will need to send them a prescription for it (so the cost of the prescription will add to the cost for you); I post mine, but they might let you fax yours. You can't order prescription medicines on-line, you need to phone them; their UK phone number is 0844 7000 801 - I'm sure you'll know how to add the international code. Dr Rusbridge's treatment algorithm, which you can download from her website, starts newly diagnosed dogs off on 2 x 100mg gabapentin daily, but in fact almost all dogs do better on 3 x 100mg, because most of them metabolise it in roughly 8 hours - my Oliver has 4 x 100mg because he seems to deal with it in 6 hours! It's normal for SM medication to be a little bit trial and error for a few weeks while you find the dosage that's right for your particular dog. Is Bliss also going to be on a diuretic such as cimetadine (Zitac), and can you get that OK in Malta? At Hyperdrug it's about £8 for 30 x 100mg tablets, and the usual dose is half a tablet three times a day.

I hope the medication will make a real difference to Bliss - gabapentin working well is often seen as a sign that SM is present.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
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She may well be coming into season if she hasn't yet had her first season. So be very careful about where you exercise her and don't let her off lead.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
She had her season and yes she started to get more obsessed about her parts since then. But down she is still continuing to lick her private part obsessively, I will continue to discuss regard this with my vet.

What do you think about spaying her? I was thinking of neutering her since I do not intend to breed her. Do you think it might effect her condition in a way or another?
 
I wouldn't think the licking is SM related, more likely an infection. I haven't had a bitch for a long time, but the subject of spaying gets discussed regularly on this forum, and the general opinion seems to be to spay if you're not going to breed, and don't do it too early, since this can affect development. Three months after a season and between 9-12 months was what was said, I think. But it's a subject that people feel strongly about - and also get a lot of pressure from vets to spay much too early - so as an owner of 2 males, I don't really join in!

Have you managed to get hold of gabapentin yet?

All the best

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
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