Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Any advice on MVD treatment for our cavvie Panda

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Any advice on MVD treatment for our cavvie Panda

    Hi there


    My husband and I originally registered on this forum a couple of years back as we have gained a lot of helpful advice
    re our dog Tails, who is now 3.


    Since then we have adopted a second cavvie, a five-year old (we think) rescue named Panda who is the sweetest little boy in the world but has
    been having some problems with his heart.


    About 3 months ago he started coughing (about once a day) so we took him to the vet who did an examination and told us
    there was nothing wrong. We knew from the initial examination that Panda had a grade 2 heart murmur but the vet was convinced
    that this was unrelated. He suggested that a few of the cavaliers that he looked after had such abnormalities so we shouldn't
    worry about it.


    A few weeks went by and we both became more uncomfortable withe the coughing so we brought Panda back in (this time to
    see a different vet) who examined him and decided it felt like a problem in his trachea probably caused by an enlarged heart
    so she gave him some anti-inflamatories and antibiotics (in case it was an infection), which seemed to have no effect. So we went back and AGAIN the vet told us it was
    nothing to worry about and we should just monitor it.


    Then finally about 2 weeks ago the cough got dramatically worse - going almost immediately from about once or twice a day to
    20-30 times a day. So we rushed back to the vet who this time heard the cough and gave Panda a diuretic shot and a
    dose of Frusemide which instantly eased the problem and took Panda back down to about 1 cough a day (and made him
    visibly MUCH happier).


    So on our next visit to the vet (about 4 days later) the vet concluded that it had to be that Panda's heart murmer
    had progressed to heart faliure and it was time to start medication...


    So he prescribed us Frusemide (20mg x3 per day), Benefortin (5mg x1 per day) and Vetmedin, (5mg x1 per day). This has ALMOST completely cleared the cough but not 100%
    - since starting the medication he has been coughing about once per day (at night), until last night when for the first time he didn't cough at all. We're hoping
    that means that the medication has taken effect properly and that he won't cough again.


    Now I was wondering if this sounds right to everyone, or whether there is anything else we should ask the vet about. The vet says he has dealt with many
    cavs with MVD and some have gone on for years on these meds but I was wondering if there is anything else that
    Panda should be taking. We just want to make sure we aren't missing anything!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    24,098
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    Hi! If you can, I'd recommend seeing a vet cardiologist. I agree with your concern, it's hard to see how a grade 2 murmur would suddenly have all these associated symptoms which suggests the grade was wrong, or that other signs were missed, or perhaps that something else is going on. For example, lungworm can cause coughing... but that aside, such a fast change would to me, be a sign that you'd want to get better information on what is actually going on and whether all the medications are the route to take. Normally vetmedin for example, isn't introduced until congestive heart failure (if resting/sleeping breathing rate is over 40 breaths per minute) -- there is evidence giving it early can cause more problems including heart failure earlier. A cough on its own is not a sign of CHF. So I'd at least want to make sure he should even be on that.

    A cardiologist will be able to give far more accurate help and a precise diagnosis.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy Connie
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Orlando, Florida USA
    Posts
    1,266
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I agree with Karlin about consulting with a cardiologist. We've had cavaliers since 1969, most with MVD at some stage of their lives, and we've learned to never allow a general practice vet to make the diagnosis and/or medication decisions regarding our dogs affected with MVD.

    As for coughing, it is not unique to heart problems. It could be something else or something coincidental with a cardiac cough.

    There is a list of supplements you might consider giving to your cavaliers, either with or even before MVD, here: http://cavalierhealth.org/diets.htm#...hy_Supplements

    Also, here is some advice about detecting heart failure in a cavalier with MVD: http://cavalierhealth.org/blog.htm#June_18,_2014
    Rod Russell

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Coventry UK
    Posts
    1,947
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Karlin wrote: 'until congestive heart failure (if resting/sleeping breathing rate is over 40 breaths per minute)'

    Just to muddy the waters, Aled's breathing has never been that rapid, if anything it has slowed since he went into CHF. His Doppler examination showed both valves flapping and useless, but his breathing is somewhere around 16-20 breaths a minute; just once or twice it has gone up to 30 but slows down again as soon as he has his vetmedin. He seems to take slower, deeper breaths from his abdomen to give his heart a stronger push, rather than rapid breaths from his lungs. On the other hand, when he went into heart failure his heart rate rocketed from the normal 120 to 220 beats a minute. Six months later he is still with us, though getting tired.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Herts, UK
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Just to add my experience. Leo was diagnosed with CHF in November 2013....He was started on Cardalis, Frusemide and Vetmedin....he responded really well.
    His Frusemide has been decreased (10mg twice a day) but his Vetmedin is the same at 1.25mg twice a day....

    Like Kate's Aled his breathing is about 20-25 resps a minute at rest.
    I also give him fish oil supplement....I don't know if it helps but its been 14 months now and he's doing great.
    He had a check with the cardio vet last week and she was delighted with him. No change in meds and he's lost weight which is really great!
    He's due another echo cardiogram in April....fingers crossed....

    I guess each dog is individual and you never know how they'll respond to the meds, we take one day at a time and enjoy what ever we've got left....I pray its many years yet

    Good luck
    Mel
    Momma to Leonardo (Leo to his friends)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    779
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    No one has mentioned -

    Is that a typo on the Vetmedin dosage? Vetmedin is always given every 12 hours (twice a day) and not once a day. And 5 mg.? How much does this Cavalier weigh? I'd be even more concerned if the vet is giving the wrong dosage.

    Pat
    Pat B
    Atlanta, GA

  7. Likes RodRussell liked this post
  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Thanks for the great responses everyone; I really appreciate your concern and support.

    We are going back to the vet on Monday for a checkup and will ask to be referred to a cardiologist. (Our did say that we could be referred if we would like Panda to have a scan, so we'll take him up on that.)

    Panda's breath rate varies a lot but has never yet counted above 40. However, as I mentioned before, the Frusemide has had such a dramatic effect on the cough that we don't want to get our hopes up that it isn't CHF. (In fact, does anyone know if it is possible that Frusemide could cure a cough not caused by CHF?) The vet asked us to drop the Frusemide to 2 a day instead of 3, but straight away the cough started coming back so we called him up and we're going back up to 3 for now.

    Pat- sorry, my head wasn't straight when writing the last post. Panda takes 5mg split into two (2.5 in the
    morning then 2.5 12 hours later). He's 12kg. He's not especially chunky but does have a large frame
    and an enormous barrel chest. (We suspect that he is part beagle; he has a number of very beagle-like
    physical attributes).

    Thanks again so much for the advice. This is such a difficult time for us and it's good to have some
    people to talk to.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    24,098
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    I've had a few cavaliers through rescue that are barrel-chested! But again there's always the possibility of a cross somewhere in the mix. Let us know what the cardiologist says -- I think you will feel more confident and informed once you've been to a cardio. I always feel much more on top of things after a visit.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy Connie
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Thanks Karlin! We'll definitely give an update when we've been to the cardio.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Herts, UK
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hiya
    Its a hard place to be...trust me I know...but like Karlin says once you've spoken to a cardiologist you'll feel much better as you'll know whats going on....I know I did

    I really hope Panda settles once the meds kick in and you find the right combination and dosage.

    I don't think Frusemide cures a cough that isn't related to a build up of excess fluid in the lungs....the diuretic effect is to get rid of the fluid hence taking the strain off the lungs and other organs.
    Mel
    Momma to Leonardo (Leo to his friends)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •