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Thread: Vaccinations

  1. #1
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    Default Vaccinations

    Alright,

    Maggie got notification in mail that her 2nd year vaccinations are due soon.
    Rabies
    Canine Distemper/Parvo vaccine
    along with her wellness check up.

    I saw a show saying that many of the vaccinations for dogs...are not nessasary.
    Vets push over vaccinating.
    http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/10/04/m...eporter-finds/ this was it.
    It was a while ago and i dont remember all the details (which i probably shoulda), but they were talking about studies..and they went under cover.


    So What are the thoughts on this?
    Oliver and Max and Meeko man, i will meet you at the Rainbow bridge. I love you all. Miss you more then you'll ever know.
    wait for me...
    Chelsea

  2. #2
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    I don't want to make your mind up for you, but I do think you should consider the findings and work of Dr Jean Dodds - just Google her name to check it all out.

    I did just that quite a few years ago and decided to do titers to check immunity levels in the blood of my adult dogs. Results were staggering for mine the levels were so high, so I stopped vaccinating but paid for titers every year or so, with similar results. Then I went to every 2, then 3 years, with similar results, so now I usually only vaccinate up to and including the first booster at around 15 months, then a titer at around 2 years, just as a precaution. My dogs have traveled far and wide in the UK to both town and country, including many shows, plus the little local outdoor ones which any dog can be entered on the spur of the moment, vaccinated and unvaccinated. No problems.

    So far we don't have Rabies in this country, so do not routinely vaccinate for it, although that may well change in the future, so I can't express an opinion on that aspect of the regime.

    Whichever way you decide to go I think there is a big element of risk.

    The only exception to this has been Holly P, who has just become registered as a Pets As Therapy Visiting Dog, where it is a condition of her registration to keep vaccines up to date. With many misgivings because of her renegade auto immune system the vet and I decided it would be a calculated risk to vaccinate. I held my breath both times and for weeks afterwards, but she is absolutely fine and of course fully equipped to carry out her duties with humans.

    I can only say that this is my experience with a handful of dogs over a period of 20 years or so. I don't think anybody can tell you what to do for the best; just consider all the evidence and make a reasoned decision.
    Warmest wishes
    Flo & the ByFloSin Cavaliers
    Rebel, Winston Alexander,Little Joe & Holly Poppet
    Birmingham, UK

  3. #3
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    Some insurers now accept vaccination every 3 years as 'regular' - so if your dog has been vaccinated within the last 3 years they are OK. I hope Pets as Therapy will eventually catch up with the latest veterinary thinking about vaccination - I think I might write to them, as I'm Area Coordinator for Coventry and Warwickshire and regularly get contacted by people filling in their application forms, and any insistence on yearly vaccination could cause a problem.

    Kate, Oliver and Aled

  4. #4
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    This is such an important issue. The crazy thing is, this isn't like it should need undercover work!!

    ALL the US and European national vet bodies advise EVERY THREE YEARS AT MOST for core vaccines. ALL of them advise AGAINST annual vaccinations as not only being unnecessary, but potentially disease causing in and of themselves. This is backed by overwhelming scientific evidence. It is not controversial, it is not disputed by the major vet bodies or the major vet schools, it is not loo-lah made up by people who oppose vaccines.

    The problem is VETS. They continue to send out notices to dog owners to vaccinate cats and dogs annually. Another problem is KENNELS and GROOMERS -- who also often ask for proof of unnecessary annual vaccinations.

    Insurance with any company is almost certainly NOT affected by vaccinating every three years. If you read the terms, they almost definitely will say that the dog would not be covered ONLY if it actually gets distemper, parvo or one of the diseases listed for core vaccines. As it is now well proven that vaccines last at least three years and very likely, a single vaccine for at least 7 years if not the entire life of the animal, this is virtually impossible. Add to that that adult dogs generally develop natural resistence to the core vaccine diseases anyway -- most of these illnesses are of greatest risk to puppies, who do need the puppy series and then the one year initial booster, but nothing again tile age FOURl.

    What amazes me is that by this point, pet owners are not violating their policy by vaccinating annually since this is known to potentially CAUSE health issues, ranging from cancers to compromised immune systems to adverse vaccine reactions.

    Please do NOT risk any dog or cat by vaccinating annually. Cavaliers already have somany potential health issues that I absolutely would avid annual vaccination and would never vaccinate a dog or cat after a final vaccine at age 7 (also suggested by many, many studies as more than adequate for the life of a dog or cat). .I would change vets if they do not accept that every three years (at most) is all that is needed.

    I'd also advice looking for the every three year rabies in countries that require rabies. Note some dogs will need other annual vaccines depending on the area, such as lepto or kennel cough as required.

    This topic just increasingly makes me so angry with the vet business, as over-vaccination is probably more of a lifetime health risk than almost anything else the animal will encounter. I cannot stress enough times that their very own national and international professional organisations have advised only every three years, at MOST, for several years now -- yet most individual vets and vet practices continue to overvaccinate, risking their clients' health. It is utterly ludicrous.

    Your dog only needs a rabies vax if she was not given a three year injection (which you can request). Parvo and distemper should not be given until at earliest, age 4 and doing a titer annually starting at age 4 (it is NOT needed til then!) may indicate she never needs one for the rest of her life.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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  6. #5
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    For anyone arguing this issue with their vet, print this out for the vet. These are the recommendations of the World sMall Animal Vet Association and are the formal vaccine recommendations of many international departments of agriculture, including DEFRA in the UK.

    http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/pdf/WSAVAguidelines.pdf

    From the executive summary (my emphasis):

    Vaccines should not be given needlessly. Core vaccines should not be given any more frequently than every three years after the 12
    month booster injection following the puppy/kitten series, because the duration of immunity (DOI) is many years and may be up
    to the lifetime of the pet.


    The VGG has defined non-core vaccines as those that are required by only those animals whose geographical location, local
    environment or lifestyle places them at risk of contracting specific infections. The VGG has also classified some vaccines as
    not recommended (where there is insufficient scientific evidence to justify their use) and has not considered a number of minority
    products which have restricted geographical availability or application.

    The VGG strongly supports the concept of the ‘annual health check’ which removes the emphasis from, and client expectation of,
    annual revaccination
    . The annual health check may still encompass administration of selected non-core vaccines which should be
    administered annually, as the DOI for these products is generally one year or less.
    Here's the guide for US vets from the AAHA:

    https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocume...Guidelines.pdf

    Which specifically recommends AT MOST every THREE years:

    Infectious core vaccines are not only highly effective, they also
    provide the longest DOI, extending from 5 yr up to the life of the
    dog. A[t least a] 3 yr interval is currently recommended for revaccinating
    adult dogs
    with infectious viral core vaccines. I
    Vaccinating every year means vets are actually violating recommended dosage. I honestly do not understand how this is allowed and what the problem is with vets!!
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  7. #6
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    I don't vaccinate, haven't done so for the past 10 years, my last 4 dogs which I've had since pups have never been vaccinated, the oldest of which is now over 7 years the youngest is 2 years, not one of them has had a sick or sorry day in their lives so far, only ever seen a vet for microchip and spay/neuter ops. I've seen the results of compromised immune systems brought on by vaccinations, I feed my dogs a carnivores diet which keeps their immune systems strong and healthy and they aren't given chemicals of any sort. I believe the immune system works in the same way no matter what species you are looking at be it man, cat or dog, once a level of immunity has been reached you cannot improve upon it, do your research and decide what's best for your conscience, it's a personal choice at the end of the day and I'm happy with mine and so are all of my very healthy dogs Over vaccinating compromises the immune system. Simple.

  8. #7
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    Actually, I strongly oppose not vaccinating at all -- it damages the herd immunity that protects most people's pets. Just because one's own dogs have remained healthy does not mean they do not spread these potential killers, if at sub-symptom level, to parks and public areas where a puppy or dog with a weaker immune system (even if vaccinated) could catch them and die. I know of outbreaks of parvo that have killed adult vaccinated dogs that had not yet had the one year booster for example (this killed a number of cavaliers a few years ago at a US dog show). Watching a dog die from parvo or distemper is truly one of the most distressing things imaginable and is something anyone who has worked in dog rescue has seen. Parvo in particular is common in pounds and very difficult to destroy (even bleach does not kill it). That is why anyone who does rescue work is a strong advocate of basic core vaccine schedules.

    Parvo and distemper are widespread and and any dog with no vaccinations at all for these remains at lifetime risk. It is very very hard (as well as extremely costly) to save a dog with either of these diseases.

    It actually is not personal choice as to whether to vaccinate in many countries. It is the law, and also necessary for basic insurance coverage. Because cavaliers have widespread and potentially costly health issues, I do recommend insurance unless one has multiple dogs and instead chooses to set up a savings account towards dog care.

    And can say, it is scientifically incorrect that 'once a level of immunity is reached it cannot be improved upon'. I acquired a serious case of measles in my 20s before it was realised a second booster was needed. What I had was less virulent than it could have been due to childhood vaccination -- but was not prevented as it would be now under new schedules. Many vaccines have one-year approximate lifespans as well (lepto, kennel cough, etc). Not all diseases are the same. It is KNOWN that immunity to parvo or distemper is not 'for life' for many pets -- so cannot be correct that immunity once reached is permanent or not improvable.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  9. #8
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    I'll just agree to disagree with you Karlin and leave it at that

  10. #9
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    Chelsea, I think Maggie is only a month or so younger than BellaMia. If so, these vaccinations should be her one year booster shots. After this, it should be every 3 years, so she needs these. BellaMia just had hers in late Dec and now doesn't need them again for 3 years.
    Last edited by Sydneys Mom; 28th January 2014 at 02:52 PM.
    Joyce - Proudly owned & loved by

    BellaMia (Aug. 30, 2012) My Beautiful Ruby Milo (Jan. 20, 2014) My Handsome Tri
    Sydney (
    April 16, 2000~April 4, 2012) Always and Forever In My Heart

  11. #10
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    Thanks Joyce: forgot we were talking about a puppy. There is some debate even on the need for the one year booster (this is noted in the WSAVA document) but think the one year is the right thing to do myself, then go for age 4 and on from there. So Chelsea would need this vaccination. I would not get a whole set of separate vaccinations at the same time however -- do them a couple of weeks apart (eg additional rabies, or lepto...)

    By the way this issue has become so frustrating to me -- that vets are still pushing annual vaccines when these professional organisations advised they move to the three year schedule at most, several years ago -- that I am creating a website with this information and links to these documents as so many ask for more detail.

    I just can't believe that on such a basic health issue, vets are pushing still for annual vaccinations.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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