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Vaccinations

Super Princess

Well-known member
Alright,

Maggie got notification in mail that her 2nd year vaccinations are due soon.
Rabies
Canine Distemper/Parvo vaccine
along with her wellness check up.

I saw a show saying that many of the vaccinations for dogs...are not nessasary.
Vets push over vaccinating.
http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/10/04/many-vets-over-vaccinate-pets-reporter-finds/ this was it.
It was a while ago and i dont remember all the details (which i probably shoulda), but they were talking about studies..and they went under cover.


So What are the thoughts on this?
 
I don't want to make your mind up for you, but I do think you should consider the findings and work of Dr Jean Dodds - just Google her name to check it all out.

I did just that quite a few years ago and decided to do titers to check immunity levels in the blood of my adult dogs. Results were staggering for mine the levels were so high, so I stopped vaccinating but paid for titers every year or so, with similar results. Then I went to every 2, then 3 years, with similar results, so now I usually only vaccinate up to and including the first booster at around 15 months, then a titer at around 2 years, just as a precaution. My dogs have traveled far and wide in the UK to both town and country, including many shows, plus the little local outdoor ones which any dog can be entered on the spur of the moment, vaccinated and unvaccinated. No problems.

So far we don't have Rabies in this country, so do not routinely vaccinate for it, although that may well change in the future, so I can't express an opinion on that aspect of the regime.

Whichever way you decide to go I think there is a big element of risk.

The only exception to this has been Holly P, who has just become registered as a Pets As Therapy Visiting Dog, where it is a condition of her registration to keep vaccines up to date. With many misgivings because of her renegade auto immune system the vet and I decided it would be a calculated risk to vaccinate. I held my breath both times and for weeks afterwards, but she is absolutely fine and of course fully equipped to carry out her duties with humans.

I can only say that this is my experience with a handful of dogs over a period of 20 years or so. I don't think anybody can tell you what to do for the best; just consider all the evidence and make a reasoned decision.
 
Some insurers now accept vaccination every 3 years as 'regular' - so if your dog has been vaccinated within the last 3 years they are OK. I hope Pets as Therapy will eventually catch up with the latest veterinary thinking about vaccination - I think I might write to them, as I'm Area Coordinator for Coventry and Warwickshire and regularly get contacted by people filling in their application forms, and any insistence on yearly vaccination could cause a problem.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
This is such an important issue. The crazy thing is, this isn't like it should need undercover work!!

ALL the US and European national vet bodies advise EVERY THREE YEARS AT MOST for core vaccines. ALL of them advise AGAINST annual vaccinations as not only being unnecessary, but potentially disease causing in and of themselves. This is backed by overwhelming scientific evidence. It is not controversial, it is not disputed by the major vet bodies or the major vet schools, it is not loo-lah made up by people who oppose vaccines.

The problem is VETS. They continue to send out notices to dog owners to vaccinate cats and dogs annually. Another problem is KENNELS and GROOMERS -- who also often ask for proof of unnecessary annual vaccinations.

Insurance with any company is almost certainly NOT affected by vaccinating every three years. If you read the terms, they almost definitely will say that the dog would not be covered ONLY if it actually gets distemper, parvo or one of the diseases listed for core vaccines. As it is now well proven that vaccines last at least three years and very likely, a single vaccine for at least 7 years if not the entire life of the animal, this is virtually impossible. Add to that that adult dogs generally develop natural resistence to the core vaccine diseases anyway -- most of these illnesses are of greatest risk to puppies, who do need the puppy series and then the one year initial booster, but nothing again tile age FOURl.

What amazes me is that by this point, pet owners are not violating their policy by vaccinating annually since this is known to potentially CAUSE health issues, ranging from cancers to compromised immune systems to adverse vaccine reactions.

Please do NOT risk any dog or cat by vaccinating annually. Cavaliers already have somany potential health issues that I absolutely would avid annual vaccination and would never vaccinate a dog or cat after a final vaccine at age 7 (also suggested by many, many studies as more than adequate for the life of a dog or cat). .I would change vets if they do not accept that every three years (at most) is all that is needed.

I'd also advice looking for the every three year rabies in countries that require rabies. Note some dogs will need other annual vaccines depending on the area, such as lepto or kennel cough as required.

This topic just increasingly makes me so angry with the vet business, as over-vaccination is probably more of a lifetime health risk than almost anything else the animal will encounter. I cannot stress enough times that their very own national and international professional organisations have advised only every three years, at MOST, for several years now -- yet most individual vets and vet practices continue to overvaccinate, risking their clients' health. It is utterly ludicrous.

Your dog only needs a rabies vax if she was not given a three year injection (which you can request). Parvo and distemper should not be given until at earliest, age 4 and doing a titer annually starting at age 4 (it is NOT needed til then!) may indicate she never needs one for the rest of her life.
 
For anyone arguing this issue with their vet, print this out for the vet. These are the recommendations of the World sMall Animal Vet Association and are the formal vaccine recommendations of many international departments of agriculture, including DEFRA in the UK.

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/pdf/WSAVAguidelines.pdf

From the executive summary (my emphasis):

Vaccines should not be given needlessly. Core vaccines should not be given any more frequently than every three years after the 12
month booster injection following the puppy/kitten series, because the duration of immunity (DOI) is many years and may be up
to the lifetime of the pet.


The VGG has defined non-core vaccines as those that are required by only those animals whose geographical location, local
environment or lifestyle places them at risk of contracting specific infections. The VGG has also classified some vaccines as
not recommended (where there is insufficient scientific evidence to justify their use) and has not considered a number of minority
products which have restricted geographical availability or application.

The VGG strongly supports the concept of the ‘annual health check’ which removes the emphasis from, and client expectation of,
annual revaccination
. The annual health check may still encompass administration of selected non-core vaccines which should be
administered annually, as the DOI for these products is generally one year or less.

Here's the guide for US vets from the AAHA:

https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf

Which specifically recommends AT MOST every THREE years:

Infectious core vaccines are not only highly effective, they also
provide the longest DOI, extending from 5 yr up to the life of the
dog. A[t least a] 3 yr interval is currently recommended for revaccinating
adult dogs
with infectious viral core vaccines. I

Vaccinating every year means vets are actually violating recommended dosage. I honestly do not understand how this is allowed and what the problem is with vets!!
 
I don't vaccinate, haven't done so for the past 10 years, my last 4 dogs which I've had since pups have never been vaccinated, the oldest of which is now over 7 years the youngest is 2 years, not one of them has had a sick or sorry day in their lives so far, only ever seen a vet for microchip and spay/neuter ops. I've seen the results of compromised immune systems brought on by vaccinations, I feed my dogs a carnivores diet which keeps their immune systems strong and healthy and they aren't given chemicals of any sort. I believe the immune system works in the same way no matter what species you are looking at be it man, cat or dog, once a level of immunity has been reached you cannot improve upon it, do your research and decide what's best for your conscience, it's a personal choice at the end of the day and I'm happy with mine and so are all of my very healthy dogs :) Over vaccinating compromises the immune system. Simple.
 
Actually, I strongly oppose not vaccinating at all -- it damages the herd immunity that protects most people's pets. Just because one's own dogs have remained healthy does not mean they do not spread these potential killers, if at sub-symptom level, to parks and public areas where a puppy or dog with a weaker immune system (even if vaccinated) could catch them and die. I know of outbreaks of parvo that have killed adult vaccinated dogs that had not yet had the one year booster for example (this killed a number of cavaliers a few years ago at a US dog show). Watching a dog die from parvo or distemper is truly one of the most distressing things imaginable and is something anyone who has worked in dog rescue has seen. Parvo in particular is common in pounds and very difficult to destroy (even bleach does not kill it). That is why anyone who does rescue work is a strong advocate of basic core vaccine schedules.

Parvo and distemper are widespread and and any dog with no vaccinations at all for these remains at lifetime risk. It is very very hard (as well as extremely costly) to save a dog with either of these diseases.

It actually is not personal choice as to whether to vaccinate in many countries. It is the law, and also necessary for basic insurance coverage. Because cavaliers have widespread and potentially costly health issues, I do recommend insurance unless one has multiple dogs and instead chooses to set up a savings account towards dog care.

And can say, it is scientifically incorrect that 'once a level of immunity is reached it cannot be improved upon'. I acquired a serious case of measles in my 20s before it was realised a second booster was needed. What I had was less virulent than it could have been due to childhood vaccination -- but was not prevented as it would be now under new schedules. Many vaccines have one-year approximate lifespans as well (lepto, kennel cough, etc). Not all diseases are the same. It is KNOWN that immunity to parvo or distemper is not 'for life' for many pets -- so cannot be correct that immunity once reached is permanent or not improvable.
 
Chelsea, I think Maggie is only a month or so younger than BellaMia. If so, these vaccinations should be her one year booster shots. After this, it should be every 3 years, so she needs these. BellaMia just had hers in late Dec and now doesn't need them again for 3 years.
 
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Thanks Joyce: forgot we were talking about a puppy. There is some debate even on the need for the one year booster (this is noted in the WSAVA document) but think the one year is the right thing to do myself, then go for age 4 and on from there. (y) So Chelsea would need this vaccination. I would not get a whole set of separate vaccinations at the same time however -- do them a couple of weeks apart (eg additional rabies, or lepto...)

By the way this issue has become so frustrating to me -- that vets are still pushing annual vaccines when these professional organisations advised they move to the three year schedule at most, several years ago -- that I am creating a website with this information and links to these documents as so many ask for more detail. :)

I just can't believe that on such a basic health issue, vets are pushing still for annual vaccinations. :(
 
Everyone gave such great answers that I only can add, read the information and decide what you feel comfortable with. I live in an area with high parvo risk so I decided on a 3 year schedule. ETA: 3 yr. vs 7 yr.
 
I have a question about this.I'm living in Europe, but in order to keep a pet passport current I'm required to keep get parvo/distemper/etc annually, and the rabies is every 3 years.

That's what all the vets in Belgium have said, is there any way I can do the 3 year vaccination schedule in Europe or is that just pie-in-the-sky recommendations and not actually "legal"?
 
Try going on to the DEFRA web site and looking at the requirements for the issue of Pet Passports which should give you details of the requirements in the UK. I have no idea about the rest of Europe.
 
wowzers did i open a can of worms! haha sorry guys.

Ok so this round a shots is a go..

she is due febuary 14th (lucky her vday) would it be the end of the world (or really dangerous )to wait 1 month and get them done in mid march?
trying to sort out budget and what i owe my mum (money conversations with mom are never fun :D)


so her next set..she wont need till shes 3 or 4? if they last roughy 3 years?
 
wowzers did i open a can of worms! haha sorry guys.

Ok so this round a shots is a go..

she is due febuary 14th (lucky her vday) would it be the end of the world (or really dangerous )to wait 1 month and get them done in mid march?
trying to sort out budget and what i owe my mum (money conversations with mom are never fun :D)


so her next set..she wont need till shes 3 or 4? if they last roughy 3 years?

Chelsea- that is pretty much my plan with Fletcher.
 
I have just been through all of this with my vet. My elder cavalier, Dillon was 'due' for his annual shots (the one after the 15 month booster) having read Dr Dodds,WSAVA and other available information I was totally compelled to avoid having these boosters without finding out whether Dillon actually needed them or not! This was not an easy thing to do. I live on a tiny island, and the one vet we have is excellent in many ways - but what he was telling me about vaccinations and boostering really was against all the research and latest guidelines. Now, I cannot fall out with my vet, BUT I decided that the surgery on a busy Friday evening was not the place to argue the toss. So, when I got home I wrote him a long email explaining my thoughts and decisions and asked if he could arrange titre testing for Dillon. He was actually most obliging and arranged the test which came back with the highest positive reading possible - so Dillon did not get boostered. The next hurdle was going to be our boarding kennels which are actually on our sister island - they were very accommodating and have said there is no problem we can still board him - we will just need to produce the written test results when we book. I have said that if need be, I will test every 12 months. Also, I will do the same with my younger cavalier, Lucy later this year.

I am so relieved that I have gone this route. It would have been so easy just to do as I was told and not to question. I am another person who is very troubled about the protocols some vets are still following DESPITE the evidence to suggest otherwise. It is shameful and I cannot understand why.

I would urge anyone who is in this quandary to read the publications Karlin has outlined. If your vet insists on boosters when you think they are wrong then go home and write to them telling them what you want to do and why. :(
 
Thanks so much for this contribution to the discussion! It's encouraging to hear of a gentle but firm challenge going smoothly. I do think there are many places quite happy to accept a three+ year booster schedule and/or titer test, if people ask. Great result! :D
 
I hope Pets as Therapy will eventually catch up with the latest veterinary thinking about vaccination

Sorry if this is a bit of a necro (is that possible here?) but I wanted to ask you about this, Kate. I was just reading the Pets as Therapy application and registration process factsheet - link - and my attention was drawn to the following extract under "suitable dogs and cats":

All visiting pets must be fully vaccinated or homoeopathically protected, wormed and protected against fleas. Records are required by the charity and each volunteer is

requested to send copies when boosters have been administered.

What does Pets as Therapy consider to be "homeopathically protected" in this context? Just curious as I saw you had mentioned it.
 
Hello everyone

I've just read through the Pets as Therapy guidelines and read vaccination as being just that: initial vacs/puppy vacs. I am certainly not against vaccination!! it is unwarranted boosters of those vaccinations when they are very often not required and are harmful to our pets. I haven't done a great deal of research on the homeopathic route, but I guess they mean homeopathic 'nosodes' - some people use them to boost. Maybe someone on the forum has some knowledge about them or even uses them.

Just my 2 cents! :)
 
As a Pets as Therapy Area Coordinator I checked this out with the head office recently and they are happy with vaccinations every three years, as now recommended by the British Veterinary Association. Persuading your vet to move from annual vaccinations is another matter!

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
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