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General newbie questions!

Hullo again~

I was hoping that some of y'all will be able to help me with some newbie enquiries?
Basically I have been in contact with a lovely Cavalier hobby breeder who is wanting to rehome one of her dogs. He is 2 and a half years old, neutered and was originally intended to be used for breeding but he isn't "excellent" enough for her to breed him so she needs to find him a forever home as a normal pet instead.

I know that Cavalier breeders shouldn't even consider breeding their dogs until they've had that 2-2.5 year health test so that sounds good to me.
This is what she specifically told me:
"He did not test well enough to breed from. That said he has a fantastic pass for eyes, heart and EF,DY,CC. I am a breeder and will only breed from the very best, any thing else I have neutered and find suitable pet homes for them."
Now this sounds fine to me and I will be talking to her soon to find out more information about his health, temperament, etc. but in the meantime I'm researching like crazy and I was wondering if anyone knows if there sounds like there are any problems here? Specifically that he passes well but not well enough for breeding which is perfect for me as I would've had him neutered anyway, but does it sound like he'd have any specific health problems due to not being breed-quality if you know what I mean? (Other than the general breed health issues.)
Also I am totally oblivious to what EF, DY and CC are! Hurhur.
She's letting us have him on a trial basis (my idea) for 2-3 weeks to begin with to see how he gets on in our home and if all goes well we'll take him on permanently.

Also I was wondering roughly how much y'all feed your dogs every day? We were thinking of feeding whatever the breeder feeds but then slowly switching onto the Royal Canin Cavalier specific food, and I've read that they typically need 80-100g a day? So I was thinking of feeding 40-50g twice a day, morning and evening, to avoid any feeding conflicts with our cats that get fed twice a day.
Does this sound right?

Thanks so much in advance, all advice is totally appreciated!



P.S. On the offchance that this breeder actually uses this forum, I apologise for my impatience! XD
 
Hi Nathus

Welcome to the forum. To start with the easy query, EF is Episodic Falling, DY should be DE for Dry Eye, and CC is Curly Coat - all hereditary diseases that can be tested for in a low cost genetic test.

If he had 'fantastic passes' for all these things and heart and eyes, what was the test he did less well on? The only one left that hasn't been specifically mentioned is an MRI scan for Chiari Malformation and Syringomyelia (CM/SM). Well done to the breeder if this is why she is neutering the dog and removing him from her breeding programme, but I think you need to push her on this one. If he has been MRI'd you need to see the actual result certificate (and ask for a copy of it to show to your own vet), and if he has tested positive, think carefully about taking him on. CM/SM is a progressive disease and if he doesn't have obvious symptoms now, he may develop them in the future. It can be very painful and cost a lot of money in medication. If he has tested positive and is not insured, evidence of CM/SM from the scan may count as an 'existing condition' if you insure him yourself and may not be covered. You may decide to have him anyway even if he has a positive MRI, but just be aware of what you may be taking on. You will find plenty of information about CM/SM here, and if he does have it, plenty of help and support from other forum members. Both my Cavaliers have CM/SM but are generally well controlled by medication; others on this forum are not so fortunate, and we have had dogs being put to sleep because their pain had become uncontrollable.

Sorry if I sound negative, but CM/SM is a real scourge in Cavaliers and anyone taking on a Cavalier needs to check it out (if they can - one of my dogs with CM/SM is a rescue and didn't scan positive until I had had him for 2 years). A good breeder will be honest about it - with the limited gene pool in Cavaliers, anyone can get it in their breeding. It's what they do about it that is important. Your breeder seems to be taking the right action, but you need to know more about what you may be taking on. If his MRI only shows Chiari Malformation (which most Cavaliers have) he may never develop serious problems - on the other hand, CM alone can cause many problems, it's completely unpredictable. If you decide to have him anyway, you will probably have a great pet - they really are a wonderful breed - but you need to be able to make an informed decision.

Fingers crossed it will all be OK!

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Thank you so much!

Don't worry about sounding negative, this is all incredibly helpful information and will make it so much easier for me to ask the right questions and make the right decision.
 
...

Also I was wondering roughly how much y'all feed your dogs every day? We were thinking of feeding whatever the breeder feeds but then slowly switching onto the Royal Canin Cavalier specific food, and I've read that they typically need 80-100g a day? So I was thinking of feeding 40-50g twice a day, morning and evening, to avoid any feeding conflicts with our cats that get fed twice a day.
Does this sound right?

I'm not sure what "Royal Canin Cavalier specific food" is, but just its name makes me suspicious that it is a gimmick. We are in the US, so please excuse the use of ounces (oz.) and pounds (lbs.). We feed our cavaliers two meals per day. The adult males get 6 oz. per meal and the adult females get 4 oz. per meal. So that is 3/4 of a pound per day (340 g) for the males and half a pound (227 g) per day for the females. Our food is homemade and raw meats and vegetables, well ground and mixed together.
 
I'm not sure what "Royal Canin Cavalier specific food" is, but just its name makes me suspicious that it is a gimmick.

I checked the web and found out what Royal Canin Cavalier King Charles Spaniel" food is. It is a dry food, which we would call a kibble in the US. It's primary ingredients are:

"rice, vegetable protein isolate*, dehydrated poultry protein, maize, animal fats, hydrolysed animal proteins, beet pulp, vegetable fibres, ..."
(http://about.royalcanin.co.uk/catal...on/cavalier-king-charles-adult23619/#demoTab3)

Frankly, if I had a bag of this around, I'd let visiting rats eat all of it. A few decades ago, one US hamburger chain of restaurants campaigned against another one with the question, "Where's The Beef?" Well, I ask Royal Canin, "Where's the meat?" Any dog food worth feeding to any cavalier should start out with some fresh meat of some sort. It doesn't have to be beef; it could be chicken, or turkey, or some other substantial portion of fresh muscle meat.

Royal Canin thinks that the primary ingredient to feed cavaliers should not be meat of any sort, but instead should be "rice", followed by something called "vegetable protein isolate", and then, in third place, something called "dehydrated poultry protein". Most all dry dog foods contain an abundance of carbohydrates, like rice, because they give the kibble the body it needs to hold itself together. So, Royal Canin is more concerned with making sure that its little bits of kibble don't crumble, than it is concerned about providing cavaliers with a healthful diet.

Bottom line? Dump the Royal Canin dry food and give your dog some real meat. Over here, when we get caught short in having our home-prepared dog food, we resort to a canned variety, like Merrick. I don't think that Merrick is sold in the UK, so look for canned food (tins?) with the primary ingredients, first of all, a fresh meat of some sort, followed by fresh vegetables.
 
See now, I originally thought that wet tinned food was a better option, but it was searching around on this forum that made it seem like a dry complete food was a much more common, favoured option so I started to look into that instead. Brands like Eden and Burns came up a bit, then we saw that Royal Canin had a breed specific food (which I totally think is a gimmick too but so long as the food was okay regardless it didn't matter to me, you know?)
So I looked up threads on this forum about it and, to be fair they were from a couple of years ago, everyone seemed to think that it was totally fine and there were no problems with it.

And you feed your dogs 2 to 3 times the amount I've read is normal (through desperate searching), so you can see why I am puzzled and trying to figure out what food and how much is best. XD Haha.

Sadly I simply do not have the budget for raw feeding or home made food, though I do think it's a great option in general, so I've been trying to find something affordable but good, you know?
 
... And you feed your dogs 2 to 3 times the amount I've read is normal (through desperate searching), so you can see why I am puzzled and trying to figure out what food and how much is best. XD Haha.

Sadly I simply do not have the budget for raw feeding or home made food, though I do think it's a great option in general, so I've been trying to find something affordable but good, you know?

Nathus, I don't recommend that anyone feed a raw, homemade diet, unless they have a lot of free time on their hands. But I do recommend that they feed at least a canned (tinned) food with an ingredient list that starts out with fresh meat with a recognizable name, followed by fresh vegetables and as little, if any, grains or other carbohydrates as possible. (I admit that we do add either cooked sweet potatoes or some other carbohydrate to our raw food diet, to help our dogs maintain their weight and for the valuable nutrients they contain. But it certainly is not a main ingredient.)

As for how much per meal, I would simply follow the directions on the tin. The quantities of raw food we feed our dogs is based upon what it takes for them to maintain their proper weight.
 
That was my original thought! But then I looked into it and everywhere, from here to dog owners I know, pointed to using dry food instead. So I'm rather baffled haha.

I'd love if some more people could give me input as to how they personally feed their dogs too. C:
 
Can anyone help me to decipher this?
"He showed a small syrinx so I feel that a stud dog should be clear that is why I have had him neutered. All his other tests came back clear so as you can imagine I am gutted. He is such a typical cavalier. Very friendly and fun living."
 
Nathus
"He showed a small syrinx" mean he has SM :(
Read up on this terrible disease before taking this little guy on. With a pre-existing disease you probably wont get him insured for it and he will unfortunately cost you a fortune......if you are not in a financial position for this it may be best to keep looking.
At least the breeder sounds sensible that she's had him neutered...

Good luck
 
I thought as much. :C I've asked her for confirmation, but yeah. Sadly I will not be able to take him on if this is the case due to insurance not being able to cover it.
 
Ouch! A 'small syrinx' at 2 years old could be real trouble. Basically, what happens with CM/SM is that the majority of Cavaliers are born with Chiari Malformation, which brings the base of the skull in contact with the brain. There is some sort of genetic mismatch between the growth of the skull and the growth of the brain and there isn't enough space for the hind brain, so the cerebellum gets pushed down (herniated) into the top of the spinal cord. This slows down the flow of cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) around the brain. This fluid then collects in the spaces at the front of the brain (the ventricles), where it should turn round and flow back down to the spinal cord - an MRI scan will often show dilated ventricles, which is one reason why CM alone can cause pain. The other result of the slowing down of CSF is that little pockets of spinal fluid occur in the actual spinal cord - this is a syrinx. If a syrinx remains narrow, it may not cause much trouble, but if it widens it starts hitting the nerves carried along the wall of the spinal cord and you can imagine the results.

Both my dogs have small syrinxes and are fairly comfortable on medication - gabapentin for neurological pain and a diuretic to reduce CSF in the skull. But 13-year-old Oliver is beginning to show more symptoms, so you can never say that you have completely controlled CM/SM for ever. Having said that, Oliver has had CM/SM for more than 7 years and it has never stopped him living a full and happy life. It's just so much a matter of luck.

You can find more information about CM/SM on the Cavalier Matters website (www.cavaliermatters.org) and on the website of Dr Clare Rusbridge, one of the leading experts on CM/SM and its treatment (www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk). Once you know more about it, you can then make a more informed decision as to whether you want to take on this dog or not. None of this is his fault (it sounds as if it probably isn't his breeder's fault either - CM/SM can still just happen even if you do all the scanning you should), but whether with you or someone else, he is going to need a caring, loving home that will look after him if the worst happens. But dealing with CM/SM isn't easy; you constantly worry about your dog and may be faced with hefty vet's bills - and the chore of pushing pills into your dog several times a day, day in and day out! But if my Oliver is anything to go by (and this is the experience of many people on this forum), you will also get a loving, happy and fun companion - Cavaliers really are the best, which is why the major diseases they have are such a tragedy.

If you do decide to have him, ask the breeder for a copy of his MRI report and his scan photos and discuss everything with your vet (if he is clued up about CM/SM - not all vets are) or ask for a referral to a neurologist (your nearest is probably at Cambridge or the Animal Health Trust), who will be able to recognise any symptoms and advise about medication if it is needed. And always feel free to ask questions here.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Can anyone help me to decipher this?
"He showed a small syrinx so I feel that a stud dog should be clear that is why I have had him neutered. All his other tests came back clear so as you can imagine I am gutted. He is such a typical cavalier. Very friendly and fun living."

This is a dog that has Syringomyelia at 2.5 years. That is fairly early onset. You need to do a good bit of homework about SM and think carefully about what you may be taking on, both emotionally and financially, before you go ahead. Living with a SM dog that deteriorates quickly can be very distressing and expensive, especially as you will not be able to get insurance cover for the SM, as it is an existing condition.

The problem with SM is that some dogs live without any pain symptoms for years, some deteriorate slowly and can be kept relatively comfortable on a changing cocktail of medication for much of their life. Others can deteriorate suddenly and their pain can be very difficult to control. A neurologist may be able to give some idea of the prognosis looking at the size and shape of the syrinx but no one can say for sure what the future holds for each affected dog.

I have some sympathy for this breeder. She deserves all credit for checking her potential stud dog before using him and for removing him from her breeding programme when she found he had SM. It is a shame that she has not been more honest about his condition when rehoming him.

What she is now doing is trying to pass on the responsibility for this dog to someone else. For a breeder such a dog becomes a liability, he is just taking up room in her home/kennel, but full disclosure of his SM status and the implications will discourage anyone from taking him off her hands for free, let alone paying for him. So she is open about the good health test results and does not mention the one result that is likely to have a really significant impact on his suitability as a pet.

There are a lot of cavaliers being pushed round in pet strollers because SM or MVD makes it impossible for them to walk any distance. They are greatly loved but it is not what their owners' expected when they bought their family pet.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.
 
Can anyone help me to decipher this?
"He showed a small syrinx so I feel that a stud dog should be clear that is why I have had him neutered. All his other tests came back clear so as you can imagine I am gutted. He is such a typical cavalier. Very friendly and fun living."

Nathus, this is not good news. It is good and commendable that the breeder had him examined for syringomyelia (SM), and it is a good thing (and commendable) that she has disclosed to you that he has a syrinx. But it is not good news for the dog or for anyone who will be owning him. He has SM, and it may or may not get worse. I do not believe that there is any way to know now if it will or not, but SM is a "progressive" disease, meaning the syrinx likely will enlarge and more severely impact the spinal cord. If it does not get worse, he still may be in some pain and need daily medication for that. If it does get worse, he may need surgery in addition to the daily medication.

I would consider taking him if the breeder agreed to cooperate financially in his future care for SM. But you need to realize what you are getting into. There are a few list-members here who have cavaliers with SM, and hopefully they will jump in here and add their thoughts to whether anyone new to the breed should start out knowingly taking an SM-cavalier. Here is a link to another webpage which discusses SM in the breed: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/syringomyelia.htm
 
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