Abrupt personality change/difference

Picked up 3 yr old Cavie on Sunday. At breeder's house, she immediately approached me and sat in my lap and let me pet her. She was understandably nervous after we left but she sat in my lap for pats and cuddling. Even fell asleep snuggled up next to my leg.

Concerning events:
1) she has growled at a few strangers who were at least 4-6 feet away, and a group of boys on bikes
2) i trimmed her paw fur last night and she didn't like it but didn't say anything until i was finishing up her 3rd paw then she growled. I stopped so now she has 1 crazy looking slippered paw and 3 trimmed paws
3) she hides all day in her crate until my kids (4 and 8) go to bed then she comes out and explores the house but always retreats to her crate. She will not hang out in the living room with me like a "normal" dog.

I know she thinks I'm hers because a neighbor came by with her dog and when I started to pet the neighbor's dog, Cavie bolted in between me and other dog, and inserted her head under my hand. Then she forced her body up against my leg to make sure nothing to get between me and her. There was no growling or other signs of outward aggression.

I know it's a huge adjustment for her to leave her only home and especially as an adult. I know most dogs go through an adjustment period, and she has only been here about 96 hours. Can you fill me in with your experiences? The vet (experienced with Cavaliers) said she really doesn't like that Cavie growled at us, and even brought up rescue groups!!!

Nice to meet you. I'm sure you will find lots of useful information here.

What were the circumstances that put the Cav up for adoption? Has the dog been socialized? If so, with children? Was the first home quiet?

I agree with you that its hard to make judgement after just one day. If the children are younger and excited, it might scare the dog. I have three dogs but our kids are teenagers. My dogs do get a little nervous when young kids visit, and while they have never growled, one will always retreat to her crate. Its very important that the kids know NOT to ever reach into the dogs crate (I only say this because I have seen my nephew do this).

I would definitely be concerned about growling and would watch the dog constantly when with children. I would also reach out to the breeder about it. Cavs are pretty friendly, accomodating dogs, not growlers.

As for your Cav inserting himself between you and another dog, I think that is just their nature. Whenever I pet one of my other dogs, Bosco (my cav), inserts himself between us. Fortunately, my other dogs tolerate his neediness Was the Cav friendly with the other dog?


Give us a little more info on the dogs background and I'm sure others here can shed some light.

Keep me posted.

Joan

Anji said:

Picked up 3 yr old Cavie on Sunday. At breeder's house, she immediately approached me and sat in my lap and let me pet her. She was understandably nervous after we left but she sat in my lap for pats and cuddling. Even fell asleep snuggled up next to my leg.

Concerning events:
1) she has growled at a few strangers who were at least 4-6 feet away, and a group of boys on bikes
2) i trimmed her paw fur last night and she didn't like it but didn't say anything until i was finishing up her 3rd paw then she growled. I stopped so now she has 1 crazy looking slippered paw and 3 trimmed paws
3) she hides all day in her crate until my kids (4 and 8) go to bed then she comes out and explores the house but always retreats to her crate. She will not hang out in the living room with me like a "normal" dog.

I know she thinks I'm hers because a neighbor came by with her dog and when I started to pet the neighbor's dog, Cavie bolted in between me and other dog, and inserted her head under my hand. Then she forced her body up against my leg to make sure nothing to get between me and her. There was no growling or other signs of outward aggression.

I know it's a huge adjustment for her to leave her only home and especially as an adult. I know most dogs go through an adjustment period, and she has only been here about 96 hours. Can you fill me in with your experiences? The vet (experienced with Cavaliers) said she really doesn't like that Cavie growled at us, and even brought up rescue groups!!!

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She was shown, then bred. 15 other dogs in the house, and a 2 year old human.

my kids have had it drummed into their heads about not ever bothering Cavie in her crate. Pretend she's not there don't even stand in front of the crate. I'm a helicopter parent anyway.

I've been having my kids sit down and hold kibble in their hands and basically be frozen birdfeeders. Trying to get Cavie to see them as bearers of good things.

Caie also runs away whenever any of us walks toward her. Today after the handfeeding she stopped running away whenever I'm upright.

I have told breeder about the growling incidents and she says it's not like Cavie.

She was very friendly and excited with the other dog.

I've ordered Rescue Remedy and will be starting it tomorrow.

joandesan said:

Nice to meet you. I'm sure you will find lots of useful information here.

What were the circumstances that put the Cav up for adoption? Has the dog been socialized? If so, with children? Was the first home quiet?

I agree with you that its hard to make judgement after just one day. If the children are younger and excited, it might scare the dog. I have three dogs but our kids are teenagers. My dogs do get a little nervous when young kids visit, and while they have never growled, one will always retreat to her crate. Its very important that the kids know NOT to ever reach into the dogs crate (I only say this because I have seen my nephew do this).

I would definitely be concerned about growling and would watch the dog constantly when with children. I would also reach out to the breeder about it. Cavs are pretty friendly, accomodating dogs, not growlers.

As for your Cav inserting himself between you and another dog, I think that is just their nature. Whenever I pet one of my other dogs, Bosco (my cav), inserts himself between us. Fortunately, my other dogs tolerate his neediness Was the Cav friendly with the other dog?


Give us a little more info on the dogs background and I'm sure others here can shed some light.

Keep me posted.

Joan

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She sounds like she is nervous. She needs a quiet adjustment period, I would not take her outside the home until she is comfortable with you as the boss. A nervous dog wants a confident leader this can be accomplished by setting boundaries for her and teaching her obedience. Make her sit for food, treats, and attention. Do not let her jump onto your lap unless you ask her to. Also as far as growling when grooming. I would tell her no and continue, dogs learn quickly behavior that gets them what they want. If you stop grooming her when she growls she will continue to growl. If she bites, I would muzzle her when she is being groomed. She needs to be groomed for her health so it is something she must learn to tolerate. You can break up the grooming session so they are short and do a little at a time during the week. Try to end the grooming session before she is stressed and starts to growl, give her a treat immediately after grooming.

She's probably spent a lot more time in a crate than an average dog, and so she may believe that's where she is supposed to hang out.

I'm surprised about the grooming issue, a dog that has been shown should be used to brushing (and trimming, although it's technically not allowed).

I'd try to find things she enjoys and do those regularly. So, you said she liked the other dog; do more where she would socialise with other dogs. You may not want to get a second pet (sounds like you already have a full household), but if she had a canine friend to play with she might get more used to relaxing around your family.

I'd be wondering a bit about the breeder, to be honest.

To me, this sounds like a fairly shy and timid dog that is probably not the best dog for a house with young children and a lot of activity. I do cavalier rescue and this is the kind of behaviour you'd see in poorly socialised dogs that are not very used to a range of people and experiences and therefore get a bit shut down.

Now, she has only been there a very short time and perhaps she is getting an awful lot of activity that is overwhelming, too. If this were a rescue, for example, I'd definitely not be doing lots and lots of forced interaction and would keep children away, leave her for a few weeks without trying to groom her (a lot of dogs simply hate having their feet done and a growl is NEVER something to punish, it is a polite way of saying 'I don't like this and it is getting to be too much' -- dogs scolded for growling learn to not warn, but bite. I would not be too worried about a growl from a new dog in a changed environment that seems pretty overwhelmed and then was having her feet groomed -- that's a lot for her to try to handle if she's already not too comfortable. And suddenly, has no other dogs to relate to that she knows. However: not good that she is growling at other people and children; this really indicates there are some issues there that are I think, not what you want in a dog.

In my opinion, this is definitely not a family dog, and definitely has some issues if she is hiding all day in a crate (this is more like puppy mill dog behaviour), growling at strangers, etc. It is hard to believe she was shown -- or maybe she just never saw people after they stopped showing her. She is probably more suited to a quiet adult home with some other dogs for companionship. The breeder should be willing to take her back and refund money. You really want and need a cavalier that is well socialised, used to children, and up for a range of activities.

I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but I've been homing rescue cavaliers for over a decade and I'd never have placed a dog like this into a family situation, especially with young children. She's just the wrong match for the home.

I've been reading all your replies, and thinking.

I'm so upset.

First, this breeder is on the national CKCSC board. I see that means nothing.

When I went to her house, Cavie acted like a Cavie. Approached me immediately, jumped onto my lap, let me pet and hold her. The breeder has a 2 year old human child, so I thought we were in the clear as far as small children.

I tried to tell myself that all the shaking, cowering and growling is due to this huge change in her life. But a friendly and well socialized Cavie shouldnt regress to a timid, fearful, antisocial dog, right?

When I shut the crate door, she doesn't care. When I open it, 75% of the time she just continues lying there. When we come in from walks, she dashes right back into her crate. She never socializes with us.

She doesn't chew any toys, and won't even look at a ball. In fact she runs away from the ball.

My husband believes once you get a pet, you stick with it. But I'm already resentful that I basically do all the work taking care of this dog, and get nothing in return. And my kids would be absolutely crushed if we rehomed her. But they are very disappointed that this darling looking dog will have nothing to do with them.

I fully understand how disappointing all this is, and how sad you are.

But there are many things to consider here that point towards returning this cavalier.

On the breeder: the breeder has a responsibility here, and she may actually not be at all aware that this little girl has a problem. Living with 15 dogs often makes it very hard to notice the problems of one, especially if the dog fits in fine in her known environment. I have found good breeders before that have failed to notice problems that were apparent when a dog was isolated. That said -- it would be of concern that this dog has not had the socialising time invested in her to prevent this type of fearful behaviour.

A breeder that cares will want to know you are having these difficulties and want to help. I think with all kind intent -- that you are doing both your family and the dog a disservice -- a potentially risky one for both -- to feel you should hang on to her. This behaviour *could* easily slip into more active fear aggressions and you are seeing some clear early signs. A dog that is like this may not change in a way that makes her a safe dog to have around small children and managing a fear aggressive and even just a fearful dog is --believe me -- very time intensive and very disheartening for many people because you won't have a dog that you can do normal dogs things with. That said: in the right situation and with ongoing work this dog could lead a happy life but I honestly do not think a family home with small children is the place the dog could do this. The dog will easily adjust back to being with her breeder and the breeder needs to know about these issues. She should refund your money. This is NOT a sign of failure, it's a sign of responsibility to your family and the dog, which needs some other option.

If I had a dog like this in rescue, she would only go to an experienced dog owning and training family used to managing difficult dogs, with teenage children as the youngest possible kids in the home. A condition of homing would be working with one of the behaviourist/trainers we recommend.

If you are going to definitely keep this dog -- and I just cannot say enough this I would think this would be the wrong decision for your children and for a happy future for this dog (the children are so young, friends are likely to be in the house, she's shown fear on walks, and one snap or bite and she could be automatically referred to be euthenised... ) -- you need to totally separate her from the children and manage this via babygates etc. You'd really need to get a qualified positive approach trainer in to assess her and recommend a management and training regime (I recommend someone with a CPDT or Stilwell Positively qualification -- the websites for these organisations will list local trainers). Too many trainers would view a dog like this as 'dominant' and use catastrophic approaches to training that could make all these problems worse. This is a fearful dog showing some fear aggression.

The other concern -- and this would be of equal import to investigate by the breeder, ideally, as this could be a huge cost burden and heartache for you to have this from the very start! -- is that she actually has some pain -- trainers would always recommend that this be the first thing checked for. Sometimes cavaliers with the neuropathic pain of syringomyelia will act like this because they are in pain -- she is showing some signs that would make me want to have that checked out (the retreating to the crate; the wariness about being touched; the warning off oe people from a distance). The breeder should be familiar with this condition. A vet check with a vet familiar with this condition might be able to indicate any suspicions in this area but it may take a clinical exam by a neurologist. The condition sadly is very common -- I've had 8 cavaliers and only two have not had SM to some degree.

I'd advise going back to talk to this breeder, explain the issues and concerns, and ask to return this girl. If you like the breeder, then perhaps wait for another available older dog. I honestly think a happy rescue dog from breed rescue would be more likely to be the family member you want.

Let us know how you get on.

Karlin said:

I fully understand how disappointing all this is, and how sad you are.

But there are many things to consider here that point towards returning this cavalier.

On the breeder: the breeder has a responsibility here, and she may actually not be at all aware that this little girl has a problem.

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Totally agree with all the points Karlin makes. I have 3 dogs, one of which was a rescue. For each dog, I had a ton of questions, and the breeder was right beside me gving me answer and support the whole way. Be honest with the breeder about what is going on, and I'm sure the breeder will work with you to find a pup that will better fit with your household. A good breeder will take the dog back at any point in its life.

Having a dog is a truly wonderful experience for the entire family, as long as you have the right dog. Returning this dog is not giving up, especially since the dog has a home to go to.

All the best to you.

joan

Again I appreciate everybody's replies.
I read them and think about them throughout the day.

I contacted the breeder and she had some suggestions. I also dug in my memory bank and put some things into action. At this moment Cavie is wandering around the house, tail wagging and sniffing everything. While making breakfast, she was hanging around the kitchen with us, not running away even though the kids were in there with me.

There's not a way to figure out which of the following helped the change come about, but here's what we used:
-Rescue Remedy in her dinner every night
-closing the crate thats further away from the family area (she has another crate in our family room where we congregate. From here she can see the dining area and kitchen)
-I'm having the kids carry treats in their pockets and give them to Cavie throughout the day

I'm not letting down my guard; I am physically mediating each interaction and when I can't be in the room, I put Cavie in her crate which she loves anyway. Or, I take 4 year old with me.

This is not total victory but definitely a step in the rigt direction. We did ask for a very mellow dog who isn't super active or loud. There's no such thing as a perfect dog right. A cuddlier one may be more prone to separation anxiety, etc.

Side note: she learned exactly 1 command from breeder. Didn't know how to sit or come! I'm working on that every day with her. I make her sit for dinner, walks, and treats. I make sure she sits before any doors are open, and people go through doors before she does. I release her with "ok!". Is it normal for show dogs to receive 0 obedience training? Incidentally, the obedience "training" I'm doing with her may increase her confidence, and decrease the fear and nervousness, according to some books I've read. Who knows?

This is beginning to sound much more positive. I would never leave any dog, however good with children, on their own and unsupervised with children - for the dog's sake as much as the children's! I've met many show people who won't teach their dogs to sit in case they do it in the ring when they should be standing. I always obedience train my Cavaliers, especially if they are nervous, because it gives them quality time and lots of praise and reward to build up their confidence. For an older dog, rather than a puppy, changing homes can be difficult and take time to adjust, but it sounds as if Cavie is coming out of her initial panic and fear aggression. Keep up the good work!