A little bit of advice needed :)

Hello everyone, I wonder could anyone help/advise me?

Pippin is 12 years and 3 months...he is on heart medication but recent scans show he is doing pretty well considering. His liver and kidneys are also fine.

He has Cardisure twice daily, Cardallis in the morning and Frusemide three times a day, the last one around 7.30pm.

No matter what time he goes to bed or how late he toilets at night, lately he always needs to toilet anytime between 4 am and 5.30am. I don't mind getting up to let him out. the problem is he is wide awake and wants feeding and kicks up a huge fuss to be fed, getting himself very stressed, so I now have no option but to feed him then.

We have tried EVERYTHING! To no avail. he was always a foodie but has gotten really bad lately, looking for food all day when he isn't sleeping, although he does sleep a lot. basically apart from a short walk all he does is eat and sleep. We increased feeds to three times daily instead of two, same amount divided into three lots. has healthy treats, is a good weight etc.

Our vet has said he is quite senile and that is why he is hungry(or thinks he is) most of the time, and stressed if he is not fed, especially in the morning when he wakes, which once or twice was as early as 3.15 am
There is nothing we haven't tried...
He was also a little restless through the night, so he was started on Diazepam last thing at night for a while to see if it helps, but all it does is make him sleep soundly until he wakes at 4/5 ish and he is wide awake looking for breakfast, nothing else will do!!!

Any advice, I am exhausted!
My husband has to be up at 6am for work and works long hours, he used to feed him then, except on weekends. I have a chronic illness, so finding all this very stressful. We are both worn out but obviously worried for Pippin too. All he seems to do is eat, sleep and bark (a lot)

He is not our first oldie, Gus was 14 but never was like this!

I wonder if any of you have had experience of this or of a senile Cavalier and also wondering whether to bother continuing with the Diazepam at night?
I don't really need advice on when or what to feed as believe me we have tried everything
Thanks in advance xxx

:updte: I have decided to stop the Diazepam as it was only making Pippin more agitated. He is getting increasingly worse day by day with the dementia and although his heart is stable for the moment, although he is on a lot of heart meds, we have been advised we may have to consider having him PTS sooner rather than later as his quality and enjoyment of life is diminishing

I know this site is very quiet at the moment but if anyone reads this and has experience of Dementia it would really help me.
I am giving him a natural calming supplement containing L-Tryptophan, which seems to be helping a little for now.

I'm sorry I've no advise but I am thinking of you and Pippin it's horrible when they are not well x

Pippa, I'm so sorry you are going through this with Pippin. It is so hard to know how to keep them comfortable. Sydney has some dementia toward the end, but not to the extent as what Pippin has. A friend's dog has a severe case and was given a drug called Anipryl. You may want to ask your vet about it.

I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I don't come here As offten either, but will check back for updates.

Hi Pippa, I'm so sorry you are having to cope with this with Pippin - it's especially hard not just dealing with the symptoms but also grieving for the dog he was and watching the real Pippin disappearing behind the dementia. My Oliver, who was PTS last year at the age of 13, was I think in the very early stages of dementia (just like me sometimes, he would busily go into the sitting room then stop, look around, and clearly say 'Now what did I come in here for'!}, but his other symptoms got worse before his dementia could really take hold, so it really had no bearing on the decision to have him put to sleep. It's always a hard decision to make, but a wise friend says always make it sooner rather than later - lose a few days of manageable life rather than let the quality deteriorate to the point where life really becomes intolerable. But you always feel a bit guilty!

Thinking of you.

:hug:

Kate and Ruby

Thank you Joyce x

Kate H said:

Hi Pippa, I'm so sorry you are having to cope with this with Pippin - it's especially hard not just dealing with the symptoms but also grieving for the dog he was and watching the real Pippin disappearing behind the dementia. My Oliver, who was PTS last year at the age of 13, was I think in the very early stages of dementia (just like me sometimes, he would busily go into the sitting room then stop, look around, and clearly say 'Now what did I come in here for'!}, but his other symptoms got worse before his dementia could really take hold, so it really had no bearing on the decision to have him put to sleep. It's always a hard decision to make, but a wise friend says always make it sooner rather than later - lose a few days of manageable life rather than let the quality deteriorate to the point where life really becomes intolerable. But you always feel a bit guilty!

Thinking of you.

:hug:

Kate and Ruby

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Hi Kate, I think Gus had early stage dementia towards the end of his life too. He was 14 but like Oliver it had no bearing on the decision to have him pts. He got kidney failure and got seriously ill very suddenly, which left me in no doubt as to what we had to do DJ had CHF but good and bad days which made the decision hard, but I know it was the right thing to do, as the bad days took over, but I struggled for a while after, with guilt and what if's. They are only 5 and 6 months gone from us

I feel so guilty even thinking about having Pippin pts. Mainly because as he gets worse he is becoming a real handful and although we love him it is getting very hard to manage him. All our time is taken up trying to help him and changing medications etc. in a bid to help, constantly in contact with our vet, who is amazing and always ready to listen and work with us, I don't want the decision to have him pts to be, or appear to be that he is hard to manage

My husband says the same as your wise friend as do my adult children, as they see how much he has changed and how I and he struggle.
Today he enjoyed his walk, scratched to go out to toilet and was awake loads, but thought it was feeding time all day and spent the majority of the day barking...nothing calms him.
Yesterday he was quieter, but soiled in the house twice, went to the wrong side of the door once looking to go out to pee and stared into space a lot.

We spoke to the vet and decided to try the Diazepam in smaller doses through the day for the next few days instead of one big nightly dose and in the meantime she will look into another medication to help that he may be able to have along with his heart medications.
I really appreciate your thoughts and this will really be the last couple of things I can try, as my vet says also that she has seen people go through this before and the memories of the dog you once had fades to be replaced with sadness everyday as you see them disappear, she has assured me I have no reason for guilt, but understands how hard it is for us, especially so soon after our other cavaliers.
Thank you so much. I will update on how things go xx

*No offence at all to any member who has a relative with Alzheimers. My own sister-in-law has it and it is just heartbreaking.

Hi Pippa, It's going to be specially hard for you, having already lost your other two Cavaliers, and Pippin going will leave you with an empty house. I know how hard this can be, as both mine were PTS last year within 5 days of each other. You feel as if even a dog who is difficult to manage would be better than the silence. I hope the adjusted meds will help Pippin, but aside from the problems of managing him, can you honestly say he is happy (except sometimes on his walks)? From his point of view, he is always hungry but not getting fed, he barks because he wants something but neither he nor you know what it is, he gets confused about doors and things in his own home... When we can no longer cope with a spouse or parent with dementia, we can ask a care home to do it for us; unfortunately there are no care homes for dogs; caring for a really ill dog can take over your life, and that has to be part of your thinking as well.

Praying that you make the right decision at the right time for all of you,

:hug:

Kate and Ruby

Still thinking of you since our last correspondence....You know your decision (what ever it is) will be right for both you and Pippin.

Praying and sending hugs your way

Melxx

~~:hug:

:updte: Hello everyone and again thank you so much for all the helpful advice, much appreciated.
Pippin is still up and down, good and bad days /nights BUT we have started him on a new medication to help with his anxiety and hopefully he will settle a bit. It will take a few days to see any improvement so hopefully by Fri we will see some change. We have only ordered two weeks supply of his regular heart meds instead of the usual months supply, as we had a very bad couple of days with him last weekend.
We were thinking it was time to let him go, but then he calmed again and I felt I/he wasn't ready yet.

So we have two weeks to see if he improves not, if he doesn't settle then we will let him go. Such a hard decision. He still knows us and isn't always confused, he enjoys his walks lately, naps and his food of course, he always loves food. His heart is stable enough with meds. So if he can calm down and not be anxious all the time and awake half the night then we can cope and feel that he still has quality of life.
If however the new medication doesn't help (and it is the last resort, we have tried everything there is to try) then it is unfair to have him in a state of high anxiety 24/7 and it is wearing us all out.
This is so hard for me. I had to have Gus and DJ pts and I hoped with Pippin's MVD/CHF that he would fall asleep peacefully some day/night and slip away or slip into end stage CHF and then it would be a somewhat easy decision but this way and this decision is the hardest I have had to make and I am really struggling. Please keep us in your thoughts. I will let you all know how things go and again thank you, Theresa xx

Do keep us posted on how the new med is doing - you, your family and Pippin are in many people's thoughts.

:hug:

Kate and Ruby

I'm crying for you and praying the new meds will help so you can have Pippin with you a bit longer. Hugs.

Thinking of you Theresa,

Keep us updated on how you all are.....gentle hugs to you and Pippin.


Mel xxx

Sending you big hugs! I hope the new meds help and give Pippin better mental quality of life. Our last dog had dementia but not the behaviors your Pippin exhibits. If you have to let him go, we all understand and know it will be for the best.

Well it's been two weeks and we are seeing an improvement in Pippin with the new medication. He is calmer and sleeping well at night, but it is bittersweet as now hIs MVD is worse.

We have increased his Frusemide and it seems to be helping.
I know he is doing well for his age and the fact that he was considered very ill 5 years ago but has done well on medication for so long. Doesn't make.it any easier, but if he has proven anything it's that he is a strong little guy.
We hope to have him with us for a while to come.
Thanks again for all the support x

Still keeping you and Pippin in my prayers. I know how hard this is for you and I hope he will be with you for some time.

Thank you so much Joyce, I know you went through this with Sydney, your beautiful boy ❤ Hugs to you and your two little ones, Theresa x