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Thread: Neutering

  1. #11
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    I had Lady spayed when she was 6 months as recommended by my vet. She was sore for a while but soon forgot all about it.

    I think it was the best decision all round
    Edel
    I love you Lady

  2. #12
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    That's what the site is here for, sharing information (well, and puppy pictures... ).

    Most vets feel about 6 months is a good time to spay a female, before they go into their first season, as Rory notes above.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  3. #13
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    Very relevant to this topic, I have just taken in a Dachshund female. She has been bred from. She has a large lump on one of her nipple areas I am very concerned for her. She has appointment to see our vet soon.

    I pray it is not a tumour. IF ONLY the previous owner had her spayed before her season but then he couldn't of made all that cash on her puppies

  4. #14
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    I hope the girl is ok and that it isn't a tumour poor thing.

    I can only echo what has already been said. Breeding has to be done from the best especially with this breed. As there are no safeguards against SM the less breeding done at this time the better. Apart from this there are far too many puppy farm rescues that need homes through greedy breeders seeing nothing more that ££££££
    This is a breed with alot of problems.

    Ruth

  5. #15
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    there was a man arrested in Blanchardstown for stealing cavaliers from back gardens, so now i escort my dogs to teh loo as well!

    I Throughly enjoy breeding these beautifull dogs. its not all about money, but reading some comments in here would put me off doing it again, as i would hate to be labeled a puppy farm, i take great pride and joy and care of my dogs, as they are part of my family. i researched what i was doing before i embarked on this journey, and i had adn continue to ahve 1st hand care from Eveylin, her dogs are top show dogs and leaders in thier class with a good family tree, adn that is why i breed my Cloe from her studs even thoughi have my own dog.

    maybe i am in the minority in breeding dogs i dont know, but i do not regret breeding and would never neuter before selling as who am i to decide teh fate of a dog i am not going to have with me for life.

    When i sell the pups i tak great care to make sure they go to good and loving homes and make sure i meet teh owners prior to them taking or choosing a pup.
    thanks

    Fidelma
    ------------------------------------
    The average dog is often a nicer person than the average person. Andrew A. Rooney

  6. #16
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    One of the big issues for the breed, Fidelma, is that the heart and syringomyelia problems are turning out to be very great indeed. Unfortunately no breed club except Sweden's actually requires cardiac certs for breeding dogs and to my knowledge, almost no breeders in Ireland follow the heart protocol set out seven years ago, yet this is so central to the breed's health and log life -- and future. The UK breed club does recommend following it, but the Irish club unfortunately doesn't or sure doesn't encourage it, and I think many breeders here aren't even aware of the protocols. In general no dog should be bred unless it is aged 5 (yes, five!) and certified heart clear (free of a murmur) or not until 2 and a half, IF both parents are known to be heart clear themselves at age 5. Because such protocols aren;t followed, the age at which these dogs acquire heart murmurs is very young -- 50% have a murmur at age 5, yet murmurs are generally an old dog's problem -- this is the equivalent of 50% of 20 year old humans getting alzheimers! A small breed *should* have a lif expectancy of 15 or so, but cavaliers have a life expectacny of only 7-10 years -- this is the same as giant breeds like the Great Dane who have very shortened life spans!

    On top of that, internationally-recognsied neurologists now believe this breed is at serious risk because of syringomyelia -- which almost no breeders in Ireland are taking seriously right now. However studies in the UK, US amd Canada are showing that * about 70% of ALL cavaliers seem to have some degree of SM * -- meaning their skull is too small and their brain is being forced down into their spinal column. There is now a breeding protocol for that, too, but I am guessing the Irish breed club has not announced this development. It is very disappointing as right now there are very serious fears that this breed only may have a couple of decades left before it is so seriously affected by SM and MVD that it will effectively cease to exist. Already leading geneticists are saying in North America that ONLY SM-clear dogs should be bred to clear as the inheritence isn;t understood and the situation is probably getting worse every day -- but that would mean only about 10% of dogs could be bred, too small to keep a valid gene pool. Thus the breed has been accepted for a full genome scan in N. America (a very rare honour), because it is considered to be under threat of extinction if this isn;t better understood so breeders can breed away from it. Sadly while the breed clubs are the key to saving the breed they don't yet seem to want to talk about this or take leadership in guiding members on this, as time keeps ticking by. Ask Evelyn perhaps if the breed club is aware of how serious the problem is now and if it will be taking any action -- I certainly hope so. I have one dog with SM and one without -- so it is a very personal issue for me.

    The point of this is to say, with cavaliers, just breeding a champion dog to another dog means little now. Really, it is a breed that needs serious conservation effort which means health status and history is more important than whether the dog produces a head and colouring that will win in the show ring. Having talked to internationally based researchers on this and in the course of keeping up with ongoing research in the area, I cannot stress enough how very very serious the plight of the breed is.

    Breeders are increasingly going to be faced with puppy buyers who return to them for help or bring a dog back and want their money returned because of SM-affected puppies -- and this is a costly, extremely painful condition for many affected dogs. So breeders will be feeling this more directly and need to figure out how they will be dealing with this. That's also something the breed clubs should really be giving guidance on especially as you could imagine such things ending up in court when a puppy buyer finds they will need to spend €5000 on surgery for an affected puppy, after a €1000 diagnostic MRI (the going price in Ireland). So you can see why many feel breeding is a quite serious issue now for the breed.

    I think not neutering in this country brings great risks -- that people will breed the dogs and produce more health-compromised puppies as they won;t be researching the health of the pedigrees, and also, because so many of these dogs get sold on again to puppy famrs and live out their lives in small cages, covered in urine and feces (see my puppy farm section for some Irish examples). Intact cavaliers are stolen for such farms -- I have no doubt that is where the ones stolen in Blanchardstown were going. They are real hellholes. And people present themselves as nice family people but puppy farmers and brokers for dogs are expert at doing this, often getting a family member to go pretend they are taking the dog. I often call people offering cavs for free in the B&S to warn them to be sure to neuter as some pretty scary people call those free ads looking for puppy farm breeding stock. Ireland has one of the biggest puppy farm industries in the world. :cry:
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  7. #17
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    that was really interesting, all the information i have read and been told states almost the opposite to what you ahve just said, in that you cant breed a female after she is 6 years old and shold be bred fro second heat.

    i was told by the club that from next year cavaliers will all have to be microchipped from January, before you can sell them, that is the only change i have been made aware of.
    thanks

    Fidelma
    ------------------------------------
    The average dog is often a nicer person than the average person. Andrew A. Rooney

  8. #18
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    The Irish club just follows very old-fashioned IKC ethics standards but these, because of the serious health issues, really need to be rethought for cavaliers. If breeders did hearts regularly, they could breed at 2.5 and get a couple of litters (most good breeders won't breed for more than three or possibly four litters from a bitch anyway because of the risks and strain it puts on the bitch each time). The MVD protocols were widely discussed and approved in 1998 and there is much research showing that breeding for heart health hugely increases longevity (some of the breeders who research pedigrees to breed for heart health as well as general conformation produce very long-lived dogs, back to what should be the norm of 14-15 or so -- and all research points to the success of this type of programme). You can see all the health issues highlighted on the UK breed club website and the US breed club website, for example; here's the overview I give on the main health issues.

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26

    In the US reputable breeders show the heart certs, hip scores, eye scores and patella info for the parent dogs to puppy buyers. Often the clubs in the US and UK have low cost cardiac exam clinics at their events but I don;t know if this ever happens at Irish events -- I wish it did as it makes it affordable and easy for people to get heart certs.

    I have a lot about SM here: http://sm.cavaliertalk.com including the current breeding protocol and all the latest research. The findings of the 1998 experts panel that recommended the international heart protocol is here:

    http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/formsdocs...heartsymp.PDF/

    The Swedish club is recognised as being the most health-focused in the world; their breeding protocol (in English) is here:

    http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=536

    The executive members of breed clubs worldwide are definitely aware of these issues. It's unfortunate if they don't takea leadership role in promoting breed health to their membership as good health and improving the breed is supposed to be at the heart of breeding.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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