Cloe's 2nd Litter

[Fi]

LOL Bruce! ver good, i waled into the hamster cage and that wasnt even in teh same room as pups!!! mind u he [the hamster] hes learnt how to open his cage. me not impressed!!!!!!

thinking of getting some sort of pen for the pups if i am going to continue to breed, but i am somewhat disheatned that i am being branded one of these bad breeders .....

anyway.... happy days at home and all going well

[Bruce H]

Once our puppies get mobile like you are describing, here's what we do. We buy a piece of sheet vinyl and put it on the floor, then put an x-pen on top of the sheet vinyl. Inside the x-pen we place their sleeping crate with the door removed so they can go in and out at will. That gives them a pen that's 4' x 4' to be in when they're not running around the house. In fact, when Star had her litter of 7 last year, we put 2 x-pens together so they had a larger area; will definately have to do that with her upcoming litter of 8 (I am still in shock about that!). And with two big litters coming up, looks like I'll be buying more sheet vinyl and another x-pen.

If you don't want to be looked at as a back-yard breeder, its going to take a lot of time and money. The first thing I would say is to get into showing and watch who is winning so you know what a good dog looks like as opposed to an average dog. Talk to the breeders who are showing AFTER the show (NEVER before). If you find the dog you want to show isn't really show quality, talk to the breeders you have met about getting a show quality dog. Kris and I firmly believe that you can only be a legitimate breeder if you also show.

As far as actually breeding, I would say you need to need to do a lot of reading about it. Buy every book and video tape you can get your hands on and study them. Then go out and buy the equipment they recommend.

Ideally, see if you can find an established breeder to mentor you. Kris and I were very lucky in that we found a local person who mentored us in the beginning.

Finally, all this is going to cost you a LOT of money. Not just up-front money, but on an on-going basis as well. Please don't think you're going to make money at this, especially when you include showing on a regular basis in your costs. Every year Kris and I think maybe this year we'll break even, but so far it hasn't happened.

[Fi]

Thanks Bruce but a couple of points....

1. what is an x pen?

2. I would ahve loved to show, but Cloe is not show dog quality and Neither is max and both for different reasons. i do not think because i do not show that i am a bad breeder.

3. Eveylin, is a top breeder here in Dublin and all her dogs are champions, i breed from her and use her dogs as studs. More over, she spent alot of her time answering all my questions and has always been on hand to help and guide. i have bought all the books videos and not in it for the money, as you say you spend more then you make.

4. so concidering i have done everything on your list except show does that make me a bad breeder??? i sure hope not.

5. dont know why today and last few days i have been so dishearned, but i think these back yard breeders and puppy farmers have alot to answer for, i also think that if a bitch is only allowed to have one litter a year you should not be allowed register more then that. how can she heal and grow if you constantly breed of her, the lady is your pet first and a mammy second so you should treasure her and mind her and do what is best for her health or i believe you will shorten her life span.

i want my Cloe with me for as long as possible.....

sorry for my rant but feel better now. XX

[Linda]

Fi

A pen is something like a crate, except it is much bigger and has
no top on it. My husband made one for Dudley when he was
a puppy I will try and find the pictures and post for you.
It kept all the little hands off him when he was so small.
I believe it was about 6 ft by 4 ft
He looked lost in it, but we also put a sheet of linoleum down and
placed the pen on the top and put paper down for peeing.

Linda

[WoodHaven]

Here is what we have instead of an x-pen

http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cl...+pen&scoring=p

If that doesn't work you can just google precision puppy pen

[Bruce H]

Sandy:

Yes, we have two of those, too. We use them as an intermediate step between the welping box and the x-pen. They move to the x-pen when they are starting to get very active.

[Bruce H]

Fi:

Maybe I didn't understand your post. It sounded like you were discouraged by being considered a bad breeder. I hope you didn't get that idea from me, if you did that was not and is not my impression of you. If I did give you that impression, it was not intentional and I apologize. I agonized over my use of the term backyard breeder because I didn't consider you a "bad" breeder and I thought that it sounded better than your use of bad breeder. Heck, I thought you sounded just like Kris and I when we first started out. Besides, if I thought you were a bad breeder, I would not have sent you the PM that I did a while back.

As far as showing, let's just agree to disagree. I know there are a lot of breeders out there who would disagree with me on that point.

Again, if I gave you the impression I thought you were a bad breeder, I apologize. My posts to you during your entire experience were meant only to help you based on my experience. You have a beautiful litter of rubies and my hat is off to anyone who can produce such a beautiful litter.

[Bruce H]

Fi:

Here is what an x-pen looks like www.petwerks.com/prodpage.cfm?prod_code=PP106 The term x-pen is just an abreviation for exercise pen. They come in various heights and consist of 8 panels hinged to each other, 24" wide. You can put as many together as you want to get any size you want. They're really nice for traveling as well as for puppies, which is our primary use.

[Moviedust]

Hi! What pretty puppies!! They are a handful, I'm sure!!

We got an x-pen for Cedar. We didnt use it as a pen, though. They open up flat; they dont have to be enclosing. We opened up ours to expand over entry ways that are too big for babygates. We have an open plan house, and it was really great to help house train Cedar. We first used the x-pen as a barrier to limit Cedar to a single room (the family room). Now, we've moved it back, so she has access to the family room, kitchen and dining rooms. (It also keeps her in the living room if we're on the other side!) When she demonstrates that she's ready to have more access, we will remove the pen barrier.

The x-pen is extremely versatile and I would recommend it for puppies throughout all of their stages of development (as long as they can't jump over them!! :P )

[Fi]

sorr for the delay in reply to this but i only found it again now, as the email telling me it was here to be read got buiried....

Bruce, im sorry if i had a go at you, it was really not my intention, i wrote what i did on a day filled with frustration and anger from something a woman said to me.

She was horrible, anyway hopefully she wont come around to my home again.


bruce you ahve been of tremendous support to me during this time, as has every one this board, and i feel dreadfull that i may have ups et you

appologies.