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Cloe's 2nd Litter

LOL Bruce! ver good, i waled into the hamster cage and that wasnt even in teh same room as pups!!! mind u he [the hamster] hes learnt how to open his cage. me not impressed!!!!!!

thinking of getting some sort of pen for the pups if i am going to continue to breed, but i am somewhat disheatned that i am being branded one of these bad breeders .....

anyway.... happy days at home and all going well
 
Once our puppies get mobile like you are describing, here's what we do. We buy a piece of sheet vinyl and put it on the floor, then put an x-pen on top of the sheet vinyl. Inside the x-pen we place their sleeping crate with the door removed so they can go in and out at will. That gives them a pen that's 4' x 4' to be in when they're not running around the house. In fact, when Star had her litter of 7 last year, we put 2 x-pens together so they had a larger area; will definately have to do that with her upcoming litter of 8 (I am still in shock about that!). And with two big litters coming up, looks like I'll be buying more sheet vinyl and another x-pen.

If you don't want to be looked at as a back-yard breeder, its going to take a lot of time and money. The first thing I would say is to get into showing and watch who is winning so you know what a good dog looks like as opposed to an average dog. Talk to the breeders who are showing AFTER the show (NEVER before). If you find the dog you want to show isn't really show quality, talk to the breeders you have met about getting a show quality dog. Kris and I firmly believe that you can only be a legitimate breeder if you also show.

As far as actually breeding, I would say you need to need to do a lot of reading about it. Buy every book and video tape you can get your hands on and study them. Then go out and buy the equipment they recommend.

Ideally, see if you can find an established breeder to mentor you. Kris and I were very lucky in that we found a local person who mentored us in the beginning.

Finally, all this is going to cost you a LOT of money. Not just up-front money, but on an on-going basis as well. Please don't think you're going to make money at this, especially when you include showing on a regular basis in your costs. Every year Kris and I think maybe this year we'll break even, but so far it hasn't happened.
 
Thanks Bruce but a couple of points....

1. what is an x pen?

2. I would ahve loved to show, but Cloe is not show dog quality and Neither is max and both for different reasons. i do not think because i do not show that i am a bad breeder.

3. Eveylin, is a top breeder here in Dublin and all her dogs are champions, i breed from her and use her dogs as studs. More over, she spent alot of her time answering all my questions and has always been on hand to help and guide. i have bought all the books videos and not in it for the money, as you say you spend more then you make.

4. so concidering i have done everything on your list except show does that make me a bad breeder??? i sure hope not.

5. dont know why today and last few days i have been so dishearned, but i think these back yard breeders and puppy farmers have alot to answer for, i also think that if a bitch is only allowed to have one litter a year you should not be allowed register more then that. how can she heal and grow if you constantly breed of her, the lady is your pet first and a mammy second so you should treasure her and mind her and do what is best for her health or i believe you will shorten her life span.

i want my Cloe with me for as long as possible.....

sorry for my rant but feel better now. XX
 
Fi

A pen is something like a crate, except it is much bigger and has
no top on it. My husband made one for Dudley when he was
a puppy I will try and find the pictures and post for you.
It kept all the little hands off him when he was so small.
I believe it was about 6 ft by 4 ft
He looked lost in it, but we also put a sheet of linoleum down and
placed the pen on the top and put paper down for peeing.

Linda
 
Sandy:

Yes, we have two of those, too. We use them as an intermediate step between the welping box and the x-pen. They move to the x-pen when they are starting to get very active.
 
Fi:

Maybe I didn't understand your post. It sounded like you were discouraged by being considered a bad breeder. I hope you didn't get that idea from me, if you did that was not and is not my impression of you. If I did give you that impression, it was not intentional and I apologize. I agonized over my use of the term backyard breeder because I didn't consider you a "bad" breeder and I thought that it sounded better than your use of bad breeder. Heck, I thought you sounded just like Kris and I when we first started out. Besides, if I thought you were a bad breeder, I would not have sent you the PM that I did a while back.

As far as showing, let's just agree to disagree. I know there are a lot of breeders out there who would disagree with me on that point.

Again, if I gave you the impression I thought you were a bad breeder, I apologize. My posts to you during your entire experience were meant only to help you based on my experience. You have a beautiful litter of rubies and my hat is off to anyone who can produce such a beautiful litter.
 
Fi:

Here is what an x-pen looks like www.petwerks.com/prodpage.cfm?prod_code=PP106 The term x-pen is just an abreviation for exercise pen. They come in various heights and consist of 8 panels hinged to each other, 24" wide. You can put as many together as you want to get any size you want. They're really nice for traveling as well as for puppies, which is our primary use.
 
Hi! What pretty puppies!! They are a handful, I'm sure!!

We got an x-pen for Cedar. We didnt use it as a pen, though. They open up flat; they dont have to be enclosing. We opened up ours to expand over entry ways that are too big for babygates. We have an open plan house, and it was really great to help house train Cedar. We first used the x-pen as a barrier to limit Cedar to a single room (the family room). Now, we've moved it back, so she has access to the family room, kitchen and dining rooms. (It also keeps her in the living room if we're on the other side!) When she demonstrates that she's ready to have more access, we will remove the pen barrier.

The x-pen is extremely versatile and I would recommend it for puppies throughout all of their stages of development (as long as they can't jump over them!! :p )
 
sorr for the delay in reply to this but i only found it again now, as the email telling me it was here to be read got buiried....

Bruce, im sorry if i had a go at you, it was really not my intention, i wrote what i did on a day filled with frustration and anger from something a woman said to me.

She was horrible, anyway hopefully she wont come around to my home again.


bruce you ahve been of tremendous support to me during this time, as has every one this board, and i feel dreadfull that i may have ups et you

appologies.
 
I think for ANY breeder to be a good breeder of cavaliers, given all the quite serious health issues that threaten this breed's future right now, then Irish breeders north and south really must start doing:

* cardiac tests

* following the guidelines to only breed from heart clear dogs who are 5, or from heart-clear dogs at 2.5 IF both parents are heart clear still at 5 (this is standard across the world for cavalier breeders and sadly ireland, one of the original homes of the breed, has not followed much less encouraged these very basic guidelines for trying to reduce the incidence of early death from heart failure. :cry:

*hip scoring and patellas

*eye exams

These, as Bruce and other breeders on the board will confirm, are the basic, standard tests good breeders worldwide do, and indeed many of the major national breed clubs require them of breeders.

The average lifespan of a cavalier right now is only 7-10 years (the same as giant breeds which are known to have very shortened lifespans due to size). It should be more like 13-14 years for a toy breed! Half of all cavaliers will have a heart murmur and the beginning of serious heart disease by age *5*. This is why it is so important for those entrusted with the responsibility of breeding to heart test in particular. Heart disease became endemic to the breed because of casual breeding and it can successfully be bred away from but only if breeders make a commitment to improving heart health. I have seen friends shattered by the suffering and early death of their loved cavaliers at only age 6 or 7 in this country. This should not still be happening anymore as a regular occurence in Ireland but it is.

SM is another issue too where the Irish breed club to my knowledge is neither discussing nor informing breeders of its level of seriousness. At the very least, I'd hope that the breed clubs will be a source of information so that breeders can consider the issues and make informed decisions on how they wish to proceed at this time, even if they do not themselves issue any guidelines or recommendations.

The UK clubs give a lot of support to breeders around MVD and testing and they have low cost heart clinics at many of the shows. I'd like to see the same happening here.

The standard recommendation from all the breed clubs in the US is not to buy a puppy from a breeder who cannot show you the heart certificates for parents and grandparents of a litter, and other health certs as well. I'd like to see the Irish club follow suit -- not least because all breeders are supposed to breed for the improvement of the breed; but without heart testing, this cannot be possible with cavaliers unless the full heart history and longevity going back many generations for each dog is known to the breeder.

What I hope is that anyone who comes to this board and considers taking on the responsibility of the future of the breed -- which is what every cavalier breeder does, because he or she makes the decision on which genes will be considered good enough to be sent out into further generations of cavaliers -- will find support, information on best practice, inspiration and the enthusiasm to give these dogs a real future through careful and health-conscious breeding. :)
 
Well said Karlin. While searching for a puppy I found so many "breeders" out there that had very little info on their dogs genetic heritage. Thanks to this forum I feel I went into finding a puppy armed with a lot of good information and had the right questions to ask. The breeder I bought Fauna from was able to supply me with information (certified) going back to her GGG grandparents on the dad's side and GG grandparent's on mom's - heart and eyes. She offered this info to me in advance so I could do my research before even meeting Fauna. Her kennel was clean, her dogs all healthy, happy and well socialized. When I arrived her 3 children were snuggled up on the couch watching TV - each had a puppy to cuddle. Fauna is so much more confident and "brave" than Beatrice was due to starting out in such an environment. I thank you and all the others on this forum for helping me go in so well prepared. This was such a different experience than the last one.

JaneB
 
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