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Thread: What is breed Standard?

  1. #1
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    Default What is breed Standard?

    can you please tell me what the standard is for the colours of cavalier....

    i know we have Blenheim which is Ruby[tan] and white
    and we have Ruby which are all ruby
    and Black and Tan which are as they sound
    and tri colour which is all three.

    my question is what do you call a ruby with only a tiny bit of white
    and what do you call a black an white one with no ruby?

    are these still acceptable as part of teh breed or what is the take on it?

    hope my question makes sence.

    thanks in advance
    thanks

    Fidelma
    ------------------------------------
    The average dog is often a nicer person than the average person. Andrew A. Rooney

  2. #2
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    They are mismarked...still cavalier but mismarked which is a fault in a show dog.
    Mary-owned by Maya, Scout, Jazz and Sassy
    Annie at the bridge 3/13
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance......

  3. #3
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    Mismarking tends to be one of the least important faults though, as I understand it (though a black and whote cavalier could not be shown at all -- that is seriously mismarked. Some white on a ruby or B&T is a different matter). Far higher on the list of what counts towards an exemplary cavalier is the shape of head and body, general soundness, personality etc.

    If I were buying a black and white cavalier I would expect a considerable discount as it is not breed standard at all. Also I would wonder whether it were pure cavalier. A lot of other breeds can creep in through indiscrimate breeding either by pet owners or puppy farms. There is also a rare chocolate gene that results in brown cavaliers, incodentally. We had some links here to them before.

    I have full breed standards listed in the Library section of the site BTW.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  4. #4
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    i was wondeing when my Lady is old enough, [and here is another question... when is she old enough to breed as i was told a year but i think that is too young] but when she does breed as you know she is a mismarked ruby so if i mated her with a ruby are the chances higher of me getting a full ruby or do i run the risk of getting a more like blenhiem?

    also is it acceptable to mate a ruby with a black and tan, as i would love a black and tan one too.. these dogs are adictable....
    thanks

    Fidelma
    ------------------------------------
    The average dog is often a nicer person than the average person. Andrew A. Rooney

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fi
    i was wondeing when my Lady is old enough, [and here is another question... when is she old enough to breed as i was told a year but i think that is too young] but when she does breed as you know she is a mismarked ruby so if i mated her with a ruby are the chances higher of me getting a full ruby or do i run the risk of getting a more like blenhiem?

    also is it acceptable to mate a ruby with a black and tan, as i would love a black and tan one too.. these dogs are adictable....
    Fi
    My Breeder has a ruby with no mismarkings, she is a full ruby.
    She is a excellent breeder and will under no circumstances breed any
    female until they are at least 2 years old.
    She is breeding her Ruby with a black/tan.

  6. #6
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    i was wondering on the age of breeding too as i would like Chloe to have a litter before being spayed...she is due her 1st season any time now and how do i keep Harvey away from her?... Chloe is 6 months and Harvey is 7months any advice would be greatly recieved

  7. #7
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    She shouldn't really be bred until 2.5 years old, with heart clear tests from both Chloe and the father, who themselves should be 5 years old at least. If either parent is showing heart murmurs by age 5 (about 50% do) she shouldn't be bred at all as such genes are detrimental to the breed (see link to UK club guidelines at bottom of this post). I presume Evelyn has heart tested her sire as this is an important basic for breeding in this breed given the terrible incidence of early onset heart disease, but you should get the information from her and also have Chloe cardiac certified. Lady also needs to be heart clear herself and this really cannot be done til she is at least 2 as heart murmurs are progressive and don;t generally begin to appear until at earliest, 2. A year is way too early and means there's a high likelihood of each generation dying younger from MVD if there's any risk of murmurs.

    The UK cavalier club has lots of information on hearts and testing (see http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/hea...heartmenu.html ), I have a lot of info in the health issues section here including the extensive reports from the cardio committee that originally advised establishing an MVD breeding protocol, and this info is generally available from any cavalier club website (unfortunately the Irish club doesn't seem to have a formal website). I believe strongly that one of the reasons so many Irish cavaliers die so young (around 6-7) of the ones I have known here, is that few people follow the basic heart protocol. Thus each generation gets worse and worse. :cry: Watching your loved pet die at 6 from cardiac failure, which is a very extended and slow and distressing death, is terrible. Dogs should be living twice that long at least.

    Ask Evelyn if the cavalier club offers low cost cardiac testing at their club events? Almost every cavalier club worldwide does this to encourage good, healthy cavaliers and breeding practice. It is common at nearly every UK cavalier club event to have heart testing done quite cheaply. If the club doesn;t do this here, it sure raises some questions as to why people are breeding, as the IKC guidelines state, this should always be to improve the health, conformation and quality of the breed. I know the Irish Newfoundland club for example strongly pushes heart health and Doppler testing and tells people not to even *consider* buying a puppy from an IKC breeder who can;t produce Doppler info on parents and grandparents. And newfs have nothing like the heart problems of cavaliers. The cavalier club should be encouraging this as an absolute minimum.

    Fi, I would really read more deeply on all aspects of breeding for health (Laura's site is very good for information) and consider whether you want to breed Lady. At this point breeders need to be not just at the bare mimimum, following heart guidelines and also getting hip scores and having eye clearances (these are very standard for UK and US breeders but sadly not for Irish breeders) but also to consider an MRI to test for affectedness with SM. What happens if you sell an SM puppy? What if the owner sues you to cover costs of treating for such a terrible condition, which will run to thousands? Will you pay to put down the puppy? Can ypou offer information and support to the owner? Would you take back such a dog -- which should always be the breeder's obligation? Every breeder needs to consider these moral dimensions of serious health problems in the breed, and IMHO do everything possible to help breed away from these conditions.

    This site exists to encourage best practice and encoruage pet buyers to support breeders who follow best practice only. I don't encourage discussion of breeding generally on the site as I don't wish to encourage breeding except by those who are meticulous in following health protocols. For this reason, I gave Bruce space on the site as I hope many will learn how complex breeding is and how a breeder goes about preparing properly and following health protocols. Ensuring a healthy future for this wonderful breed (or any breed) is a heavy responsibility and given how under threat the cavalier is, nobody should be breeding any longer without ensuring all protocols are followed and that each generation of puppies improves in health and meets conformation guidelines too. Otherwise, there's no difference from backyard bred and puppy farm bred dogs, where dogs are bred with no regard to health or whether they meet the breed standard. That's why most good breeders also show their dogs because it is the only way to stay on top of conformation and learn about best health practice, and to find and work closely with a mentor.

    More info: this is what the ackcsc says people should look for in a good breeder: http://ackcsc.org/wantacavalier.html

    Breeding guidelines from the UK club: http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/health/hearts/mvd.html
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  8. #8
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    When Cloe goes into heat i send Max on his holidays for 2 to 3 weeks, so he is not around the stressfull enviorment of wanting what he cant have, poor lad probally couldnt do it anyway, but i know he would try as he is sniffing her already and im wondering why as she is not in heat, the babies are only what 3 months old she couldnt be in season already. but im keeping an eye to make sure, adnif she is then off he will go!!!!!
    thanks

    Fidelma
    ------------------------------------
    The average dog is often a nicer person than the average person. Andrew A. Rooney

  9. #9
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    I thought you were neutering Max?

    You need to ask Evelyn on what combinations would produce a B&T -- it depends on the parents and grandparents and which genes are dominant and recessive. I would presume she would know the full pedigrees of both these dogs and can tell you.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  10. #10
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    My Sasha is a mismarked blenim - she only has one ruby eye patch and the other eye is white with no patch. My breeder gave us a substantial discount on her b/c we picked her for a family/4-H dog. She actually has done much better as a therapy dog and she was spade around a year.

    My ruby girl is a full ruby w/no white on her at all, but she came to us just last summer (she just turned .

    I definately encourge folks to look into adopting an older dog that may be retired from breeding/showing. I've had two re-homed adult cavs now, and really love giving them so much extra attention knowing they've done their "work" in life whether it's breeding or showing. Now it's just time for they to sit on the bed and eat lots of treats!

    Sheri Ramirez

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