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Thread: introducing *Oliver*

  1. #11
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    I should really add that uncertainties like this are why people should ONLY go to reputable breeders who follow health protocols. A good breeder could explain the difference between MVD and flow murmurs and talk through options regarding a puppy with a flow murmur and not leave a potential buyer feeling concerend or lied to. I don't know whether this man is a breeder or selling on a pup from elsewhere but if he isn;t affiliated to the club and doing standard testing I wouldn't take a pup from such a source anyway. Contact the breed club for references for good breeders that health-test.

    Look at it this way -- the least worry you have is a puppy murmur if it is a flow murmur in a puppy bred by a good breeder following heart protocols. If you buy from a breeder who doesn't follow them, you statistically have at least a 50% chance that your new pup will have a murmur anyway in the next few years and it is more likely to be a serious murmur. Stdies show breeders who follow heart protocols and other good health breeding guidelines produce puppies that are considerably less likely to get a murmur until old age.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  2. #12
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    as cathy said, i'd rather have a healthy pup from the start, i guess i'll wait until Harry's breeder has another litter later this year

  3. #13
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    What a shame, he does look so lovely, but if you did get him and get attached and he got worse would not be very nice for you and your family.

  4. #14
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    Just reiterating that a flow murmur pup IS a healthy pup -- it is just that due to excitement or other causes, their heartbeat can SOUND like it has a murmur. It isn't really *a murmur* per se but simply related to the louder sound a puppy heart makes ANYWAY. The reason it goes away as the dog gets older is not because it is "healing" or "getting better" but simply -- as the cardiac doctor's post above notes -- the fact that as the dog gets larger and older less blood volume moves through the heart and the murmur sound vanishes.

    *** If this has been verified as a flow murmur, it is simply a murmur SOUND not an actual murmur caused by a physical problem. It has absolutely no relation to a health issue. ***
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  5. #15
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    But considering the breeder withheld this information from her intially, why should she believe him when he says the vet said it would go away? that just sends up too many red flags for me.
    Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.
    --Roger Caras

  6. #16
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    Not to be argumentative, but do we know that the breeder withheld information or did the breeder just now get the puppy to the vet and find out him/herself?

    Our puppies get one last look by the vet about 1 week before they're ready to go to their new home. If we heard a puppy murmer at that time, we would tell the owner and would hope that they wouldn't think we were withholding information. I guess what it boils down to is how reputable is the breeder. I have a hard time imagining any of the reputable breeders I know withholding this kind of information, even though its probably a harmless puppy murmer.
    Bruce
    MysticKnight Cavaliers

  7. #17
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    You're right, Bruce. We don't know the whole story. I took the story to imply that the breeder didn't tell them bout thee murmur until they had decided to take it. But you're right - they could have just now taken it to the vet and found out about it.
    Heather - maybe you could talk to the vet about it and see what he/she thinks?
    Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.
    --Roger Caras

  8. #18
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    your right Rory over the course of a few days he had said pup was healthy, then once we had decided to take him then he told us that he had a health problem, so we arn't taking the pup on the grounds that i can't trust him

  9. #19
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    just emailed him using another email address, this is what he replied..................


    Up to now he is available as i am waiting for a reply from coventry
    Eyes and hips are OK, but vet tells me he has a very slight murmur(G2).
    Loves all my grandkids and plays readily with his mother and my sons cavalier.

    so his heart problems have suddenly got worse??? icon_yikes

  10. #20
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    OK, NOW something sounds screwy. No more sympathy for that breeder.
    Bruce
    MysticKnight Cavaliers

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