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Pedigree Dogs Exposed "Mark 2" - Should It Be made

.you have to understand in the usa, very few people are even scanning. I was thinking of a puppy out of the country just so I could have scanned parents.

It is up to determined buyers like you to keep asking for puppies from scanned parents and refusing to be fobbed off when they say...

It is not necessary, the number of SM cavaliers is exaggerated.

It is not necessary because I don't have it in my lines.

It is too expensive.

It is too far to travel for an MRI

And then of course there is those who imply...... my dog has it but it is no problem, just a little scratching, just a limp occasionally, nothing to worry about, a lot of fuss about nothing.

Anne, you had a cavalier with SM. We have many many USA owners who write asking for advice and support for their SM dogs.
What do you think is going to happen when USA breeders continue to breed unscanned dogs?
Will SM go away all by itself?

. I guess I live in a dream world.

It appears that way sometimes.

. If anything, I wish people could know how to contribute to research, find responsible breeders and more of this is what you can do to help.

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That's what CavalierMatters, Ruperts Fund, Cavalier Collection Scheme,CavalierPuppy Buying Advice, Cavalier Campaign and Foetal Tissue Research are doing. Interestingly all but one pet owner initiatives.

Only FTR has had any support from Cavalier Clubs, and breeder support for that seem to be waning now that their key researcher has confirmed the scale of the SM problem.
 
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PDE..........Some of the Myths busted.

I can only speak about cavaliers, so I know nothing about the other breeds discussed in PDE, but I can tell you that as far as the criticisms of PDE regarding cavaliers is concerned, roughly 90+% of that criticism is phony. Whether it is the falsehood about the dog being denied its meds, or whatever, the criticisms have been largely a combination of people spreading falsehoods about PDE and other people blindly falling for those falsehoods.


http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/p/pde-myths-busted.html
 
Hi

You know I ask the question and I firmly believe there should be a Part Two but I have to admit I
have never even seen Part One ,I consider myself not a wimp but a big cowerd as far as our animal
friends ggo I cannot bear to see any living thing hurt or suffer so there was no chance I could watch
our Cavaliers suffer none whatsoever .:sl*p:
 
Hi

You know I ask the question and I firmly believe there should be a Part Two but I have to admit I
have never even seen Part One ,I consider myself not a wimp but a big cowerd as far as our animal
friends ggo I cannot bear to see any living thing hurt or suffer so there was no chance I could watch
our Cavaliers suffer none whatsoever .:sl*p:

You think because I have questions on whether or not pde made breeders less open about SM means I want cavaliers to suffer? This is exactly what I'm afraid of. I absolutely don't want that but because I have questions on what the result caused of the first one, that means I want them to suffer? I simply don't know if it made less people want to be open because of risk of the stigma I feel PDE placed on SM a condition that we are still learning about. Each time I ask questions about CM or anything else, it gets twisted that I'm not wanting the best interest. That's what I don't like.

Do I know if more would be open with mri results? I have no idea.

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I am on the fence. Just would like input from breeders,clubs, and genetics l. I would like for people not.to not.fear of open

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You think because I have questions on whether or not pde made breeders less open about SM means I want cavaliers to suffer? This is exactly what I'm afraid of. I absolutely don't want that but because I have questions on what the result caused of the first one, that means I want them to suffer? I simply don't know if it made less people want to be open because of risk of the stigma I feel PDE placed on SM a condition that we are still learning about. Each time I ask questions about CM or anything else, it gets twisted that I'm not wanting the best interest. That's what I don't like.

Do I know if more would be open with mri results? I have no idea.

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I think everyone knows you are just trying to make sense of a very confusing situation where nothing is straightforward.

I do think that PDE brought the subject of SM out into the open in a way that would have taken many more years if it had not been shown.

The stigma is to know there is SM in cavaliers and to hide the fact.

Anne, I was the Cavalier Club spokesperson for 6 years. I know exactly what it was like then, and the change that has come about because of the film, because I was battling against the denial and the cover up of SM that went on.

Towards the end of those years my friends were scared to be seen talking to me because I had became so unpopular for publicising something the influential breeders did not want talked about.

I did not dare sell 'For the Love of Ollie' openly on the Cavalier Club health stall at shows because of the complaints it would bring.

There was a lot of unspoken intimidation and decent breeders that did scan were worried that they would be called 'health freaks' and it would affect their chances of winning in the show ring.

Stud dog owners were outspoken in their fury if anyone scanned offspring from their dogs.

Breeders that had SM dogs, and since PDE it has become clear just how many there were, kept very quiet about them and usually rehomed them quickly.
They would refuse to answer pet owners who tried to tell them of the problems they had encountered,and made threats of legal action if they persisted.

Breeders that had young dogs operated on, or were known to be in conflict with USA breeders that had found the UK cavaliers they had bought were scratching and screaming, nevertheless poured scorn on what have now proved to be low estimates of affected dogs, libelled the specialists that were trying to help, and put pressure on clubs to stop cooperation with researchers.

After PDE, and the first furious denials that there was any problem, more breeders in the UK began to scan their dogs ( the low cost centres suddenly became very busy ) and heart & eye clinics had a large increase in numbers.

And ask yourself, how do you learn about a condition when nobody will admit that their dogs have it? When they won't scan to see if their dogs are affected? When they won't provide the information the researchers need?
 
Pedigree dogs exposed "mark2" -should it be made

That's a good idea

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PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED "MARK 2" - SHOULD IT BE MADE


Anne,

Could I also suggest that you Contact the Researchers into CM/SM, about all the Questions you have about those Conditions Afflicting our Cavalier Breed.

No doubt they will give you a lot of Information.


Bet
 
PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED "MARK 2" - SHOULD IT BE MADE


Anne,

Could I also suggest that you Contact the Researchers into CM/SM, about all the Questions you have about those Conditions Afflicting our Cavalier Breed.

No doubt they will give you a lot of Information.


Bet

I have never been in contact with Dr. Rusbridge except an email to say thank you. I interviewed Dr. Marino. I do not doubt the statistics at all.

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Rod,

There are reasons that I will not get into on this board, that I would definately not want a PDE 3 in the usa. We can discuss of this board.

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Pedigree dogs exposed "mark 2"-should it be made

Rod,

There are reasons that I will not get into on this board, that I would definately not want a PDE 3 in the usa. We can discuss of this board.

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PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED "MARK 2" -SHOULD IT BE MADE


I am feeling very CRABBIT at the moment ,I am suffering from Sciatica.!!!!,but I feel I Really have to answer Anne about the The PDE TV Program

I cannot speak about the other Breeds of Dogs that were involved in the Program , but if it had not been for the Shock Way of dealing with the SM Problem in our Beloved Cavalier Breed ,no notice would ever have been taken or the Cavalier Buying Pubilc been made aware about the Suffering that SM causes to our Cavaliers

I will never forget the Screaming of the Cavalier in the Program, nor will I am sure many Lovers of the Cavalier Breed.So if the PDE Program has made the News-Papers ,etc aware of what a Cavalier is Suffering , then Thank You Jemima Harrison.

Softly ,Softly ,Cachee Monkey ,is absolutely no use in how the SM Problem is dealt with for Cavaliers.

We have now gained more information about the CM Problem in the Cavalier Breed, that about 90% Cavaliers have CM ,also 85 Whelps Researched for the Foetal Tissue Research , ALL HAD CM.

CM is Chacterised with the Brains being too Big for the Skulls ,hindering the Flow of Cerebro Spinal Fluid .this causes Syrinxes to Form then SM.

Anne ,if you don't believe me about this ,contact Dr C Rusbridge, Neurologist, where she has mentioned it on the Intrenet.

Also maybe you could read many of the Veterinary Papers on the Internet ,which have been Peer Reviewed about the CM/SM Problem in our Cavalier Breed where I am sure you will get all the Answers to your Questions.

Maybe even contact Jemima Harrison as well.

Bet
 
All I know is that with out PDE I would have had a very very painful dog for a hell of a lot longer as PDE was the sole reason I had Ruby scanned!!

I read the article in Dogs Today by Jemima Harison and she speaks about high lighting the sucess stories on the program but not forgetting what a long way to go there is with others!

And for Cavaliers there is such a very long way to go and maybe, just maybe when people see what little prgress there has been by the Kennel Club to help us out they will think again before buying from non health tested parents!!

Its is 'recommened' that parents are heart scanned, 'recommended' that parents are eye tested, recommend, recommend, recommend!! No mention of anything mandatory!!

And the Kennel Club say that the breeders are 'ON board' with the EBV scheme!!!

I'm sorry but PDE only started the ball rolling for these wonderful little dogs- now lets get serious and tell the Public what has really happened since- because if t wasn't for the Pet owner research schemes there wouldn't be much tto talk about would there!!!
 
Hi Karen

I fully agree there is a long way to go ,and to think where we would be without it even though I have never watched it, the ensuing publicity it quickly attracted helped so many of us pet owners by educating us of the dark side that was only whispered about between breeders and quickly after denial buried again and certainly not mentioned to "those" the pet buying public .We have so much to thank J.H. and P.D.E. for so lets hope PDE 2 is equally earth shattering and if not then lets see PDE 3 and more till all breeders are responsible health breeders and all breed according to the recommended guidelines .And equally a huge Thank You to the many breeders that are now conforming to the health breedng guidelines. Though I would dearly love to see more adopting The MVD Breeding Protocol and no underage dogs appearing in the Breed Record Supplements with many coming from supposedly leading well known names .I wonder if R. M. ever bred Cavaliers .

And I certainly dont think with any Cavalier issues "one can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds",if breeders will not accept and comply with all
the necessary health tests and breeding guidelines ie SM and MVD, then it should be made compulsory that they do or the other choice for them is get out of breeding even the few that have been breeding for centuries as its obvious that even with their aged knowledge after playing God they have left there patient broken, maybe beyond repair .I am so happy to be just a poor humble pet owner but one who wants my pet to be happy ,healthy and long lived, I think I am going to be disappointed .:(
 
I think everyone should watch "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" and then re-watch it periodically, again and again. I just finished watching it, to refresh my memory. I did it because, just last week, Ron Menaker, the chairman of the board of the American Kennel Club described PDE as a "piece of sensationalist fiction and tabloid journalism masquerading as a documentary".

I had not recalled it being that way, and so I watched it again to re-assure myself that the AKC chairman either has not watched it himself, or he has watched it and has chosen to lie about its content. I was thusly reassured; he is either ignorant or a liar.

The segments about the cavalier are excellently presented and completely factual. If you did not know about MVD and CM/SM in the CKCS, then PDE will teach you by presenting Simon Swift and Clare Rusbridge to tell you about those disorders, including how dangerously widespread they are in the breed. You may watch it, too, at http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/
 
I think everyone should watch "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" and then re-watch it periodically, again and again. I just finished watching it, to refresh my memory. I did it because, just last week, Ron Menaker, the chairman of the board of the American Kennel Club described PDE as a "piece of sensationalist fiction and tabloid journalism masquerading as a documentary".

I had not watched PDE until today. Was not sure if I could bear to watch any animal that is suffering but decided I should do it as I am trying to gain more information into the world of dogs--Cavaliers especially. Don't for the life of me see how it correlates to prospect of people inbreeding, however. This is totally preposterous. That's like comparing apples to oranges--or worse!

I do feel that PDE is sensationalistic in it's "exposure." But then again sensationalism in the media is what sells, I suppose.

Then again insight can be a powerful weapon. And in this respect I am glad I watched it.
 
I... Don't for the life of me see how it correlates to prospect of people inbreeding, however. This is totally preposterous. That's like comparing apples to oranges--or worse!

I don't see why it does not correlate to humans inbreeding. The science of genetics is the same for both groups.
 
...I do feel that PDE is sensationalistic in it's "exposure." But then again sensationalism in the media is what sells, I suppose.

It may be sensational, but that is not a fault. It is factual (at least as far as cavaliers are concerned) and it is a documentary, and that is why Ron Menaker's comments are false.
 
I don't see why it does not correlate to humans inbreeding. The science of genetics is the same for both groups.

:yuk:This may be true my objection results from the question posed to Mr Irving by the reporter who wanted to know if he would entertain the thought of "inbreeding" within his own family members!

If you can see no difference here you best return to basic science classes. The question posed has no correlation between people/dogs and there is a difference between the two.

Sorry for my ignorance.
 
:yuk:This may be true my objection results from the question posed to Mr Irving by the reporter who wanted to know if he would entertain the thought of "inbreeding" within his own family members!If you can see no difference here you best return to basic science classes. The question posed has no correlation between people/dogs and there is a difference between the two.Sorry for my ignorance.

I don't understand why you would think the question has no correlation . . . and I understand science and genetics fairly competently. Biologically, the risks of inbreeding in humans are similar to other mammals. The reporter asked a question that has validity from a biological standpoint. IF you only pondered it only from a moral standpoint knowing humans have a moral code and animals don't, then think harder on it as that is not the only way the question can be interpreted. The obvious reason for the question was because of the biological implications - which is the reason behind the taboo in most human societies.

Oreo
 
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:yuk:This may be true my objection results from the question posed to Mr Irving by the reporter who wanted to know if he would entertain the thought of "inbreeding" within his own family members!

If you can see no difference here you best return to basic science classes. The question posed has no correlation between people/dogs and there is a difference between the two.

Sorry for my ignorance.


I'm no scientist but I do know that mammals don't naturally breed with close relatives. Mans interference and strange need for the 'perfect' specimen for the show ring amoungst everything else are why this breed is in such a mess.
Line breeding is a biological nightmare thatshould have been banned a long time ago and the question was a good one to Mr Irving who clearly didn't like the question!!
 
The Blue People of Kentucky

I'm no scientist but I do know that mammals don't naturally breed with close relatives. Mans interference and strange need for the 'perfect' specimen for the show ring amoungst everything else are why this breed is in such a mess.
Line breeding is a biological nightmare thatshould have been banned a long time ago and the question was a good one to Mr Irving who clearly didn't like the question!!

I would not say linebreeding is a genetic nightmare. You can read several things Dr. Bell has written about the ins and outs of breeding. http://www.malamutehealth.org/articles/breeding_bell_genetics3.htm I'm not getting into that because I have never bred before but I will say that if a breeder had a blue cavalier they would be removed from the breeding program. This is a
The Blue People of Kentucky is a genetic tale of inbreeding with recessive genes.

Yes, there is a joke about inbreeding in Kentucky. Actually in South Carolina, everyone seems related to everyone else especially in some circles. You can see that in history with royalty, in isolated populations etc. This is what caused "THE BLUE PEOPLE OF TROUBLESOME CREEK"



You can read about them but basically it started way back in the 1800's where a person who settled married a woman who carried the same recessive trait. Well they were isolated and you can get the picture.

BluePeople-PeoplewithblueSkin.jpg
[/IMG]

If you want to read more for your enjoyment http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kyperry3/Blue_Fugates_Troublesome_Creek.html
 
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